How did Israel go from almost losing to Vettori to beating Gastelum?

chinarice said:
....... What hype? Adesanya proved he is the real deal. It's not hype anymore.
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He proved he is very good. But you cant be fully priven without facing any of the best grapplers of his size. N1 rule of mma since forever
 
As his confidence grows, so exponentially do his performances. As usually happens. Great stuff.
 
size. fight was irrelevant imo. body-lock and blanket a green grappler with massive size on him 30% of the fight. Wow. Just like Kelvin's loss to Weidman neither really meant anything.
 
That fifth round proved a lot, can’t wait for Whittaker vs Adesanya, gonna be intense. Huge fight now.
 
Here's what a lot of fans don't seem to understand about MMA: Anyone can beat anyone on a good night, and where someone is ranked doesn't mean they're an easy fight for everyone above them. Everyone stepping in the cage is a human being who did a fairly similar training regime prior to the fight. The champ could lose to the #20 guy, everyone is human. MMA is a combination of skill and luck, you get high ranked by training hard and also getting lucky by not getting caught in any of your fights, one wrong move and anyone can get KOed.

One fight also doesn't decide anything for the ages. If Adesanya and Gastelum fought 10 times, Israel is probably not winning all 10 times. Another factor is style matchups, there are guys outside of the top 10 in any division who would give the champion a hard time because they have a style that works well against them, but they might not get the opportunity for one reason or another. Success in UFC is a combo of skill + luck + marketing hype + PED usage, thats why some guys are at the top (they have all 4 going for them--Jon, or at least 3 out of the 4--Izzy).
 
The Vettori fight wasn't close. It was a clear 2 to 1.

There were haters pretending otherwise, but then again there were people saying Kelvin beat him too lol...
 
PurpleDrank said:
Oh shit i didnt even know that lmao. Also Vettori didnt come "close" to winning. He maybe won a round, if you wanna be generous.
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Didnt know about vettori popping either, but I do feel like it was a pretty close fight. Only watched the one time but thought it was pretty competitive with each guy having their moments.
 
For the 787th time cause some fighters progress and get better and some a whole lot better. " common sense" . Why did khabib struggle with tibau early in UFC tenure. How did stipe actually lose to struve early in UFC tenure. How was RDA a .500 fighter early in UFC tenure before he changed training coach (and everything else for that matter). How did T-wood lose.......... forget it , I give up.
 
pankrat said:
He proved he is very good. But you cant be fully priven without facing any of the best grapplers of his size. N1 rule of mma since forever
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So if you lose to the very best, you're hype? Well, that's wrong.
 
itheuser said:
Whitaker won't be taking shots, he'll be giving them. Israel doesn't have great power.
Also, Whitaker's grappling is better, and he's not as small as Gastelum. He's also a better striker. Add that all up, and I don't see Whitaker losing.

Israel just escaped Gastellum. Let's not act like he looked like a world beater. He was getting rocked by a smaller fighter who isn't the most technical striker.
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Gastelum isn't a flashy striker, but a lot of the things he does, he does well. He also has heavy hands and has rocked a lot of top fighters. I think that Israel did look like a world beater, even though he had trouble keeping Gastelum at range at times.

Here's why:
1. His tdd was once again shown to be very good. That's key for a fighter with a skillset like Adesnaya's. He's going to win a lot more fights than he's going to lose if the fight mainly takes place on the feet.
2. He's tough as nails. He ate some heavy shots and kept coming and he dominated the fifth and decisive round. The kid has heart.

I'm not trying to crown him the best ever or even call him the uncrowned MW champ or any of that. I like Whittaker's chances if he can get his innards in order. But Adesanya has clearly shown he's in the elite at 185. He's a tough fight for any MW.
 
While he was certainly impressive in the fight. He enjoyed a pretty huge size advantage.
 
pankrat said:
He proved he is very good. But you cant be fully priven without facing any of the best grapplers of his size. N1 rule of mma since forever
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Adesanya has faced some competent MMA grapplers and so far his TDD has been very good. By your measure a guy is never fully proven until he's cleaned out his division, which is too much. Sherdog is too anxious about being taken in by hype. You can relax, because Adesanya is clearly the genuine article. Losing to a great grappler at this point would just be a loss, not being exposed or derailed or any of that.
 
IngaVovchanchyn said:
Gastelum isn't a flashy striker, but a lot of the things he does, he does well. He also has heavy hands and has rocked a lot of top fighters. I think that Israel did look like a world beater, even though he had trouble keeping Gastelum at range at times.

Here's why:
1. His tdd was once again shown to be very good. That's key for a fighter with a skillset like Adesnaya's. He's going to win a lot more fights than he's going to lose if the fight mainly takes place on the feet.
2. He's tough as nails. He ate some heavy shots and kept coming and he dominated the fifth and decisive round. The kid has heart.

I'm not trying to crown him the best ever or even call him the uncrowned MW champ or any of that. I like Whittaker's chances if he can get his innards in order. But Adesanya has clearly shown he's in the elite at 185. He's a tough fight for any MW.
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I agree , after Saturday night, I can now call Israel an upper tier mw as he handled a tough customer in KG. I'm still not at the point to attach some of the labels that his fans have anointed him, though. This can all change as we see him evolve fight to fight.As you eluded to robs health, as long as whitaker healthy I give him edge.
 
humdizzle said:
Who has gastelum beat ?? a deflated vitor, tim kennedy, loses to weidmann, KOs bisping, and a split over Jacare. and he gets a title shot off that resume.
Adesanya's path is also pretty weak: washed up Silva, Brunson, Tavares.

The real test at MW is Romero and Whittaker. Those two are miles above everyone else right now.
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Adesanya's path hasn't been weak lmao he's beaten 4 top 15 MWs in less than a year. Can you show me any other fighter in recent memory that has done that?
 
chinarice said:
So if you lose to the very best, you're hype? Well, that's wrong.
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No. I was replying to a guy saying Whithaker, the real champ, doesnt last 15 minuts with Israel. Well thats buying into the hype a little too much.
 
pankrat said:
No. I was replying to a guy saying Whithaker, the real champ, doesnt last 15 minuts with Israel. Well thats buying into the hype a little too much.
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Whittaker really doesn't look all that impressive of a fighter.

He gets severely hurt every fight...in the fight and outside the fight. He's strong and well rounded but nothing about him is really all that special.

He's kinda like a humble Bisping
 
IngaVovchanchyn said:
Adesanya has faced some competent MMA grapplers and so far his TDD has been very good. By your measure a guy is never fully proven until he's cleaned out his division, which is too much. Sherdog is too anxious about being taken in by hype. You can relax, because Adesanya is clearly the genuine article. Losing to a great grappler at this point would just be a loss, not being exposed or derailed or any of that.
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I like Adesanya. Im just saying that you are not fully proven until you face any of the best grapplers at your own size. This apply Adesanya and to anyone in any division in MMA.
Just like Whittaker wasnt fully proven after beating 'competent mma grapplers" in Brunson and Natal.
He then faced one of the very best grapplers in Jacare and not only beat him, but dispatched him. At that point you cant deny he is proven. Then he beat Romero in case there was any doubt left.
Adedanya is not at that point yet, obiously. And I personally think he wont be, at least in the near future, but thats just my opinion.
 
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