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How common are throws in Thailand

Trabaho

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Throwing the fight




Is this very common, if you would gauge a percentage, 10-20% ?

Obviously there is a market to let wealthier foreigners win.

I hope you can see the clip on IG
 
It depends. Sometimes they give up if they are already taking a beating. There is no health insurance. The first few fights are can fights then you move on to people who might have extensive experience but are too old or don't train. They match people up accordingly since there is betting. I also seen Thais sandbag in their fight. I saw some European champion get absolutely trounced by a 17 year old boy. The boy gave up the first two rounds then turned it up when the bets were on.
 
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It depends. Sometimes they give up if they are already taking a beating. There is no health insurance. The first few fights are can fights then you move on to people who might have extensive experience but are too old or don't train. They match people up accordingly since there is betting. I also seen Thais sandbag in their fight. I saw some European champion get absolutely trounced by a 17 year old boy. The boy gave up the first two rounds then turned it up when the bets were on.

About what kind of european champions you had opinion? Euro KB isn't just PAK style stuff.
Aka in ams they too had different rule sets... including low kicks allowed.
Before this recent shit. .. guys from U.K, Ireland, Ukr, Russia too were common stuff in the same KB ams...
A lot of open cups allowed guys from U.S..boxing ams especially.

I might imagine how big fun for example might to get clinch with Oly level judoka cos someone had imagined that he automatically is bum just because he is from europe, despite european championships usually had larger talent pool than number of inhabitants in EU/ EEZ....
 
About what kind of european champions you had opinion? Euro KB isn't just PAK style stuff.
Aka in ams they too had different rule sets... including low kicks allowed.
Before this recent shit. .. guys from U.K, Ireland, Ukr, Russia too were common stuff in the same KB ams...
A lot of open cups allowed guys from U.S..boxing ams especially.

I might imagine how big fun for example might to get clinch with Oly level judoka cos someone had imagined that he automatically is bum just because he is from europe, despite european championships usually had larger talent pool than number of inhabitants in EU/ EEZ....
That fellow ended up in the stadiums later in his career. In the past the level of competition overseas vs Thailand isn't as competitive. I am referring to Thai competitive weight classes. Thais are very small people. I would say anything under 135 is still considered highly competitive. They have some fighters at 136-160 but it is less competitive.

Personally I feel someone could not just go there and think they are going to run the Thais. The talent tool is so big out there and everyone is good. Even the guys with double digit losses are really good. You need to train there and get used to the scoring. Their clinching are also years ahead. I will admit the gap is closing or has been closed by some non Thai countries. Japan has gyms with Thai trainers and they even produced their own teenage stadium fighters that went through the circuit. Eiwa Sports gym from Japan is impressive. They produce small guys who fight like Thais in the clinch but they are also great combination fighters with low kicks. They are also well versed at catching and sweeping. My only knock on them is that their fighters seem very robotic but their reaction time is really good.
 
That fellow ended up in the stadiums later in his career. In the past the level of competition overseas vs Thailand isn't as competitive. I am referring to Thai competitive weight classes. Thais are very small people. I would say anything under 135 is still considered highly competitive. They have some fighters at 136-160 but it is less competitive.

Personally I feel someone could not just go there and think they are going to run the Thais. The talent tool is so big out there and everyone is good. Even the guys with double digit losses are really good. You need to train there and get used to the scoring. Their clinching are also years ahead. I will admit the gap is closing or has been closed by some non Thai countries. Japan has gyms with Thai trainers and they even produced their own teenage stadium fighters that went through the circuit. Eiwa Sports gym from Japan is impressive. They produce small guys who fight like Thais in the clinch but they are also great combination fighters with low kicks. They are also well versed at catching and sweeping. My only knock on them is that their fighters seem very robotic but their reaction time is really good.
Yes.
Europeans usually are larger size.
For weight 135 lbs and lower than this talent pool for adults divisions in asia is larger than in europe. ...also for Judo... boxing too does have the same trend.

For larger guys europe even had not low number of good am Kbers, am MT guys who in pros had switched to pro boxing.... cos money.
KB isn't well paid in europe....
Some even had switched to high level am boxing from high level am KB... aka Povetkin etc.
 
Yes.
Europeans usually are larger size.
For weight 135 lbs and lower than this talent pool for adults divisions in asia is larger than in europe. ...also for Judo... boxing too does have the same trend.

For larger guys europe even had not low number of good am Kbers, am MT guys who in pros had switched to pro boxing.... cos money.
KB isn't well paid in europe....
Some even had switched to high level am boxing from high level am KB... aka Povetkin etc.
For larger guys they shouldn't try to even compete in Thailand. It is just a waste of time. There is no competition there. I think anything heavier than 160 shouldn't go there. They have people over 160 but it's probably across the border or against another foreigner.
 
That fellow ended up in the stadiums later in his career. In the past the level of competition overseas vs Thailand isn't as competitive. I am referring to Thai competitive weight classes. Thais are very small people. I would say anything under 135 is still considered highly competitive. They have some fighters at 136-160 but it is less competitive.

Personally I feel someone could not just go there and think they are going to run the Thais. The talent tool is so big out there and everyone is good. Even the guys with double digit losses are really good. You need to train there and get used to the scoring. Their clinching are also years ahead. I will admit the gap is closing or has been closed by some non Thai countries. Japan has gyms with Thai trainers and they even produced their own teenage stadium fighters that went through the circuit. Eiwa Sports gym from Japan is impressive. They produce small guys who fight like Thais in the clinch but they are also great combination fighters with low kicks. They are also well versed at catching and sweeping. My only knock on them is that their fighters seem very robotic but their reaction time is really good.
Basically there are barely any Euros under or up to 135, and basically there are barely any good Thais above 135. So EU and Thai miss each other by weight. However both got 155ers right ? Which is sort of even. Buakaw Yod ect won and lost to the best in Europe. Ok there's just Buakaw Yod rest are below LW. So why call Thais better if noone in Europe weighs 115 pounds, that's like 1% of the population actually less than 1%.
 
For larger guys they shouldn't try to even compete in Thailand. It is just a waste of time. There is no competition there. I think anything heavier than 160 shouldn't go there. They have people over 160 but it's probably across the border or against another foreigner.
Is there a heavyweight division in Thailand ? like French ect guys fighting each other at HW ? I bet there is and the competition is low.
 
Basically there are barely any Euros under or up to 135, and basically there are barely any good Thais above 135. So EU and Thai miss each other by weight. However both got 155ers right ? Which is sort of even. Buakaw Yod ect won and lost to the best in Europe. Ok there's just Buakaw Yod rest are below LW. So why call Thais better if noone in Europe weighs 115 pounds, that's like 1% of the population actually less than 1%.
It is more complicated than that. When Thais fight overseas. They are basically over the hill or they are not suitable for stadium fighting. Sometimes managers might have someone in their stable that is more suited for stadium fighting so the second guy fights overseas competition. You can see their bodies are softer vs earlier in their career. Most Thais are over the hill by the time they hit 25.

There are good Europeans that live and go through the stadium route. It's not easy to win in the stadium as a foreigner. Those folks train/live in Thailand.
 
It is more complicated than that. When Thais fight overseas. They are basically over the hill or they are not suitable for stadium fighting. Sometimes managers might have someone in their stable that is more suited for stadium fighting so the second guy fights overseas competition. You can see their bodies are softer vs earlier in their career. Most Thais are over the hill by the time they hit 25.

There are good Europeans that live and go through the stadium route. It's not easy to win in the stadium as a foreigner. Those folks train/live in Thailand.
They just don't have 155 guys. Buakaw was fresh enough and top 3. My favorite actually. In One thais are doing great, well it is Muay thai. I just don't fancy anything below 155. 155 is great, below just can't celebrate it. Obviosuyl foreigners who are small enough to fight Thai elite are gonna have a hard time. there's a milion Thais doing Muay thai since childhood, you are just one of them there basically.
 
Is there a heavyweight division in Thailand ? like French ect guys fighting each other at HW ? I bet there is and the competition is low.
France is probably the best European country in Muay Thai. They had a few stadium champions from 140-160 lbs. Stadium fighting is very competitive. You don't stay champion for long but France at least produced fighters who were able to capture titles.
 
For larger guys they shouldn't try to even compete in Thailand. It is just a waste of time. There is no competition there. I think anything heavier than 160 shouldn't go there. They have people over 160 but it's probably across the border or against another foreigner.

I moved to Thailand 2013 to stay there for one year, been there previously training only for 2 months. Had about 5 years of muay thai training and was looking to live "the muay thai lifestyle" in Thailand. I knew I was already bigger than Thais, walking around at 82kgs, competing in 170lbs(MMA) but got disappointed when I realised the level of the competition was really low for me and big guys. I got "lucky" and had two bouts, one against a korean and another one against an Iranian. Won those easy and decided to go back to focus on MMA and grappling instead.

A lot of the other guys my size and bigger had terrible fights, sometimes fair against other foreigners but the majority of them were against overweight thais who always lost.
 
When I was in Thailand I met this big Dutch fellow who was so proud he beat a Thai in his first fight and when he showed me the fight, the Thai guy was like a head shorter and only his weight class because he was overweight. The Thai didn't look like he was even really trying that hard and was in there for a paycheck.

I don't know how legit this is but it's kind of known in some places that they give farang easy fights for their first fight. It's always a thai who's much smaller, a literal cab driver, someone who's just there to make some money and lose. When I was in Chiang Mai I met a bunch of farang who would suspiciously win by KO in their first fight ever against a Thai after not even a year of training. You're telling me that a foreigner after training a few months, in their first fight ever, KO's a thai who's been training since they're kids? Sounds like they let you win. Especially if you watch the fights, they trade kicks for first round or two, then KOs are always by a single punch and the Thai just folds like a sack of potatoes. Also suspicious that every farang in their first fight has that kind of KO power in their hands lol.

I also met an Italian girl who beat a Thai girl in her first fight by knock out and when I commented, "Wow you must have been training for a long time to beat a Thai!" She said she's been training for 4 months lol.

It's extra sketchy because some gyms try to push you to have a fight really quickly before these guys look proficient.

Some friends I know who were interested in having a fight turned it down because they heard the first fights are always fixed. They should just match you with another foreigner who's around the same level.
I knew one guy who got an easy win like this in his first fight, but then in his second fight he got matched with a Thai who was there to win and got his ass kicked.
 
When I was in Thailand I met this big Dutch fellow who was so proud he beat a Thai in his first fight and when he showed me the fight, the Thai guy was like a head shorter and only his weight class because he was overweight. The Thai didn't look like he was even really trying that hard and was in there for a paycheck.

I don't know how legit this is but it's kind of known in some places that they give farang easy fights for their first fight. It's always a thai who's much smaller, a literal cab driver, someone who's just there to make some money and lose. When I was in Chiang Mai I met a bunch of farang who would suspiciously win by KO in their first fight ever against a Thai after not even a year of training. You're telling me that a foreigner after training a few months, in their first fight ever, KO's a thai who's been training since they're kids? Sounds like they let you win. Especially if you watch the fights, they trade kicks for first round or two, then KOs are always by a single punch and the Thai just folds like a sack of potatoes. Also suspicious that every farang in their first fight has that kind of KO power in their hands lol.

I also met an Italian girl who beat a Thai girl in her first fight by knock out and when I commented, "Wow you must have been training for a long time to beat a Thai!" She said she's been training for 4 months lol.

It's extra sketchy because some gyms try to push you to have a fight really quickly before these guys look proficient.

Some friends I know who were interested in having a fight turned it down because they heard the first fights are always fixed. They should just match you with another foreigner who's around the same level.
I knew one guy who got an easy win like this in his first fight, but then in his second fight he got matched with a Thai who was there to win and got his ass kicked.
It's appropriate because the foreigner usually has no fights. They usually find a person who fought before but is there to be a can. It's the same way with boxing. Those guys fight multiple times a month. They aren't going to fight hard. The trainers don't lie to you either. They tell you that those opponents have experience but they just don't train anymore. The competition steps up as soon as you are ready providing that you are in the right weight classes. I saw someone that I thought was a decent mid tier Thai fighter when I was a young man. I remember speaking to some trainers and they were like oh he doesn't fight foreigners because he will kill them. I saw him in a video recently and he is a can that puts over foreigners. I guess it is just part of the sport if you stay around it.

It's just hard to match fighters because of the starting point. Suppose say you have a 25 year old foreigner with 5 fights in their home country. You can't really match them with a Thai with 5 fights since it is most likely a 8 year old. You can't match them with a late teen because the teenager will probably mop the floor with them. The 17-23 year old active Thai fighter can have up to 300 fights and they are most likely technically better. I think you need around 30 fights in the host country to be around their level. 25 year old is young for westerners but not for Thais.

Female MT is not competitive over there. Foreigners started out earlier than locals. It's a relatively new sport there for females over there. I remember when I started training there. Females weren't even allowed in the ring to train. They had to train on the floor. I am working on the assumption nothing has changed the past 15-20 years. I am pretty sure there are local female Thai superstars by now.
 
It's appropriate because the foreigner usually has no fights. They usually find a person who fought before but is there to be a can. It's the same way with boxing. Those guys fight multiple times a month. They aren't going to fight hard. The trainers don't lie to you either. They tell you that those opponents have experience but they just don't train anymore. The competition steps up as soon as you are ready providing that you are in the right weight classes. I saw someone that I thought was a decent mid tier Thai fighter when I was a young man. I remember speaking to some trainers and they were like oh he doesn't fight foreigners because he will kill them. I saw him in a video recently and he is a can that puts over foreigners. I guess it is just part of the sport if you stay around it.

It's just hard to match fighters because of the starting point. Suppose say you have a 25 year old foreigner with 5 fights in their home country. You can't really match them with a Thai with 5 fights since it is most likely a 8 year old. You can't match them with a late teen because the teenager will probably mop the floor with them. The 17-23 year old active Thai fighter can have up to 300 fights and they are most likely technically better. I think you need around 30 fights in the host country to be around their level. 25 year old is young for westerners but not for Thais.

Female MT is not competitive over there. Foreigners started out earlier than locals. It's a relatively new sport there for females over there. I remember when I started training there. Females weren't even allowed in the ring to train. They had to train on the floor. I am working on the assumption nothing has changed the past 15-20 years. I am pretty sure there are local female Thai superstars by now.
I'm talking about matching them up with a can, I'm saying some of these fights are fixed and the Thais lose on purpose. In boxing they match you up with a can if you're a promising prospect. They don't do that for some random foreigner who showed up a few months ago lol. In this case, you are the can if you're fighting a Thai lol. And the cans are still there to fight, not pretend to get KOed in the 3rd round.

It's always the foreigner's first fight, the foreigner has been training for less than a year, and the foreigner always wins the fight by KO via a single punch. A lot of people don't know any better but if you've seen fights and been around the game long enough, you'd find it suspicious if all these people are getting one-punch knockouts in their first fight ever. And it's the nature of the KOs that makes it extra suspicious. You'd think there would be some head kick KOs, elbow KOs, KO by combinations etc. mixed in there but it's always one singular punch that does it which smells like bullshit to me. I suspect it's because if you're going to act like you got KOed, letting one punch land is safer than than letting a kick or elbow or a combination of punches do it. Also there are never any decision wins either. It's always a KO.

This may be more of a thing in touristy areas though. I suspect they want to give foreigners a good first experience and the thai gets some money.

I first trained in Chiang Mai like 17 years ago and there was a 13 year old girl who was hitting the pads with a trainer in the ring. There was at least one fight between teenage girls when I went to a stadium. This was back in the day when I saw a guy riding a literal elephant in the streets of Chiang Mai. Gangs of dozens of feral dogs everywhere. A pad thai was like 70 cents. Good times
 
I'm talking about matching them up with a can, I'm saying some of these fights are fixed and the Thais lose on purpose. In boxing they match you up with a can if you're a promising prospect. They don't do that for some random foreigner who showed up a few months ago lol. In this case, you are the can if you're fighting a Thai lol. And the cans are still there to fight, not pretend to get KOed in the 3rd round.

It's always the foreigner's first fight, the foreigner has been training for less than a year, and the foreigner always wins the fight by KO via a single punch. A lot of people don't know any better but if you've seen fights and been around the game long enough, you'd find it suspicious if all these people are getting one-punch knockouts in their first fight ever. And it's the nature of the KOs that makes it extra suspicious. You'd think there would be some head kick KOs, elbow KOs, KO by combinations etc. mixed in there but it's always one singular punch that does it which smells like bullshit to me. I suspect it's because if you're going to act like you got KOed, letting one punch land is safer than than letting a kick or elbow or a combination of punches do it. Also there are never any decision wins either. It's always a KO.

This may be more of a thing in touristy areas though. I suspect they want to give foreigners a good first experience and the thai gets some money.

I first trained in Chiang Mai like 17 years ago and there was a 13 year old girl who was hitting the pads with a trainer in the ring. There was at least one fight between teenage girls when I went to a stadium. This was back in the day when I saw a guy riding a literal elephant in the streets of Chiang Mai. Gangs of dozens of feral dogs everywhere. A pad thai was like 70 cents. Good times
It's all the same thing. You aren't fighting anyone good for your first few fights. Those guys throw the fight because they don't want to take punishment. It also depends where you are fighting. Depending on the circuit you will start to see familiar faces for many events. If you are in a tourist area then there is a turn key training population. People show up for a few months and leave. The promoters will have a set of regulars that they use to fill out the cards. I suspect these guys perform more than once a week. I understand what you mean by the seemingly easy knockouts.

They had the first female fights in lumpinee stadium in 2021. I remember the first female tournament years ago and all the Thais got trounced. Thais are very superstitious people. Most of the non tourist gyms don't take female foreigners or even beginner males. They can't train beginners anyways. I would even argue Thailand in general isn't a good place to train beginners.
 
It's all the same thing. You aren't fighting anyone good for your first few fights. Those guys throw the fight because they don't want to take punishment. It also depends where you are fighting. Depending on the circuit you will start to see familiar faces for many events. If you are in a tourist area then there is a turn key training population. People show up for a few months and leave. The promoters will have a set of regulars that they use to fill out the cards. I suspect these guys perform more than once a week. I understand what you mean by the seemingly easy knockouts.

They had the first female fights in lumpinee stadium in 2021. I remember the first female tournament years ago and all the Thais got trounced. Thais are very superstitious people. Most of the non tourist gyms don't take female foreigners or even beginner males. They can't train beginners anyways. I would even argue Thailand in general isn't a good place to train beginners.
I was also told that in the smaller local stadiums the fighters (the Thais) all know each other and are friends. On top of them fighting every other week, they deliberately don't take a lot of punishment for that reason. It's not a big deal to lose at all so sometimes they just want to put on a show and have fun. The easy KOs when foreigners fight are obvious dives. Any decent Thai who wants to win is likely going to win.

I just find it funny to meet people who were so proud of beating a Thai in their first fight after training literally a few months. You really think you KOed a legit Thai fighter who's been training before he entered grade school, while you just started training last April? That hubris didn't exist in more serious gyms that weren't geared towards tourists and the foreigners were also legit fighters.

It seems the female scene got better? Not that I follow it but I knew one American woman who was living the life and was very serious about it. She was training fighting in the states before she moved to Thailand. She fought in some events in bangkok and the female Thai vs farang fights seemed like a mix bag, as opposed to the male fights where Thais seem to win more often than not.

I would agree that Thailand isn't a good place for beginners. I visited a lot of different gyms all over the country just for the experience and the way they teach is really different from how I learned martial arts in other countries. In Thailand they teach you like you already been training and know what they're talking about even if you're a complete beginner. One gym had you throwing a spinning elbow from the beginning lol even though most people didn't even know how to throw a jab. Their methodology seems to be "figure it out as you go along." Of course the language was an issue too.
It's a different approach and it's fun though. Everybody just wanted to box me in sparring when they figure out that I used to box. I really want to go back.
 
Basically there are barely any Euros under or up to 135, and basically there are barely any good Thais above 135. So EU and Thai miss each other by weight. However both got 155ers right ? Which is sort of even. Buakaw Yod ect won and lost to the best in Europe. Ok there's just Buakaw Yod rest are below LW. So why call Thais better if noone in Europe weighs 115 pounds, that's like 1% of the population actually less than 1%.

There are actually plenty of very good Thais above 135. Some of the best Thais right now are fighting above 135; Superlek, Tawanchai, Superbon, Dam Paranchai, Petchmorakot, Tapaokaew, Petchputhai, Nuenglanlek, Capitan, and the list goes on. And actually guys like Tawanchai and Superbon are even fighting at 155 while Petchmorakot is fighting at 160, so it's not just Buakaw and Yod who have fought at 155 and above.
 
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