How come you don't learn TDs in BJJ earlier?

I asked a purple belt in class about this a couple weeks in and he told me I should take the judo class they offered at the same place. Honestly, I think part of the reason is how much space it would take up, if you all sparred standin. That said...
 
And maybe there was, maybe there was a day every week specifically devoted to takedowns and that's a day you didn't go. It's hard to say because some school drill takedowns once a month and some once a class.

I'll have to apologies for my douche bag grappler brothers here, they're not very receptive of strikers.
 
depends on the gym, some schools dont work them a lot, some dont. there is no standard curriculum for bjj so it can vary widely from place to place.

if you have a coach that competes, and he has good takedowns, you probably will learn takedown from him.

if you dont, you may not.
 
OK TS, here's the deal. You might hear reasons such as safety being given but I think it stems down to one of two things.

1) Space. You can fit more students on the mats if they just have a small area to roll in. Takedowns require more space in the 'rolling' portion of the class, if not the technique drills part. Also if you're cynical, you can fit more students on the mats by avoiding takedown training, you can make more money.

2) Knowledge. The blackbelt instructor, or even the Brown or Purple Belt that might be taking a class while the blackbelt tours other gyms he's set up, are confident or competent enough in teaching takedowns since their own knowledge and ability is limited. This would be down to the overseeing blackbelt.

If safety is a genuine concern, at the least takedowns should be practised form the knees so you can learn principles but it can also be useful for getting the upper hand in scramble situations.
 
Safety should be a big concern. I've had my knees taken out from under me multiple times at wrestling practice. Thanks for the cool responses though guys!!
 
I don't know. I agree that a handful of basic takedowns should be introduced and drilled at the white belt level. I didn't care that much because I did a year of Judo before I ever tried BJJ. But now I'm really happy that my BJJ academy introduced a couple of dedicated takedown classes every week.
 
well, it doesnt matter if your school is flooded with bbelts world champs if the instruction sucks... there are good competitors and there are good techers, and if you didnt get any td class in 3 months, that means the instruction in your school is not the best you can get.. I would shop around if there was another place to train if I was you... no bahiana after 3 months is just unacceptable...
 
We start them from day one. It differs from school to school.
 
i move around quite a bit and have trained at a few schools, and only 2 out of 5 have had a dedicated takedowns class (one being more judo focused). i think the main problems are:

1) space- with the explosion of mma, classes are busy.
2) injury/practicality tradeoff- a lot of people take up bjj cus it's a good way to fulfill your "macho" desires without looking like you didnt make your wife a sandwich. im in a professional school and would make a bad impression if i showed up in a cast. i know i still take that risk, but i feel starting on the feet would amplify the risk a lot more.
3) culture- bjj places so much emphasis on fighting off your back. if youre taken down and manage to secure guard, it's not so bad of a position.
4) status quo- youll pull guard and youll like it.
5) wrestling sucks

the first 2 are the most commonly cited reasons for sure.
 
Yep some times the teacher himself is not well versed in takedowns, it is rare anymore, or should be. But even in these cases you often find a wrestling or Judo class at most clubs.
 
BJJ_Rage said:
well, it doesnt matter if your school is flooded with bbelts world champs if the instruction sucks... there are good competitors and there are good techers, and if you didnt get any td class in 3 months, that means the instruction in your school is not the best you can get.. I would shop around if there was another place to train if I was you... no bahiana after 3 months is just unacceptable...
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If the guy is being legit about the school he attends, then is sounds like he attends Crazy Eighty Eight based on his description. That school is probably one of the best schools in the country in terms of producing top competitors. They haven't produced any black belt champs obviously, but are making noise at the blue and purple belt levels.
 
I asked one of my instructors about this today. we've done them here and there, but there's nothing set in stone regarding takedowns.... anyway he offered to stay late with me and drill/go td's next week, so that's really cool.
 
youngsteinel said:
If someone isn't using going to compete, don't you think its more of a self defense thing, which IMO would be more reason to learn takedowns?

PS: I did not mention wrestling, or bring up wrestling I am talking about BJJ. So don't bring up wrestling. (not talking to you but just in general)
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yeah you didn't bring up wrestling but you did say that bjj guys in mma don't have really good takedowns. i assumed you were referring to some ufc fights, where a guy like aurelio can't take anyone down because he's facing superior wrestlers. or maybe someone like maia, with brillaint bjj, can't take down silva. right?

i wasn't even trying to defend bjj in my posts, just answering your question with some common sense. my school rarely does any takedowns and i don't mind. i don't compete much and when i do i pull guard. if i ever fight mma, i guess i'll work harder on my takedowns.

but generally i train because it's fun. not for a fight, not for self defense. i train because it's great exercise, it's a really complex art and you always have shit to learn and you can spar pretty much 100% and people don't get hurt much. it's awesome.

but if you're gonna train for self defense or a fight, then by all means do not limit yourself to bjj but take wrestling and boxing as well. so then you have nothing to worry about, right?
 
but even like you said, you're just grappling for grappling's sake, I think you should learn and work takedowns to be complete.
 
Wrestling and takedowns are not necessarily the same thing, randomg1t. You don't have to be a good wrestler to have good takedowns.
 
redaxe said:
Wrestling and takedowns are not necessarily the same thing, randomg1t. You don't have to be a good wrestler to have good takedowns.
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exactly. karo threw burkman and diego around with judo, and maia launched a phenomenal wrestler using judo as well.
 
Today in BJJ we brought out the crash mat, and practiced throws all class. In a year of attending classes at my gym, this was the first time we've done this. We occasionally do takedown based drills, shooting for a double or whatever, but not completeing it. Sometimes we do throws. Any practice standing comprises maybe 5% of total practice time, the rest being on the ground.

Its a problem, and its why I've been very interested in other arts, and am going to start Sambo soon. I have terrible takedowns, with my sloppy double leg being the only one that's remotely useful. I'd like my martial arts training to have at least a bit of use for self defense (although this is not why I train), and takedowns are required for this.

I think they're not taught because the ground component is easier to learn. I say this because for any throws to be done you first must spend a lot of time learning breakfalls. Throws themselves are difficult to learn, and its easier to get hurt practicing them. You can learn an armbar in your first class of BJJ; it will suck terribly, but I think a newbie would find it easier than learning a throw in the first judo class they took.

I do find it ridiculous how such an effective ground grappling art is so ineffective at getting things to the ground in the first place, but BJJ is super specialized and thats part of why its so effective.
 
mtruitt76 said:
If the guy is being legit about the school he attends, then is sounds like he attends Crazy Eighty Eight based on his description. That school is probably one of the best schools in the country in terms of producing top competitors. They haven't produced any black belt champs obviously, but are making noise at the blue and purple belt levels.
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I attended 88s for like two months
 
If you take a look at the old competition videos it looks like a judo competition with emphasis on the ground.

I beginning to think that old school bjj guys have great takedown techniques.

but this is just me.
 
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