How can you tell if a MMA gym is a McDojo?

[CosItsFun]

The flying crescent kick, fine, If you can make that work in sparring good for you. Knife hands, mid/low punches from the waist in a weird stance and complicated but useless blocks are what i was referring to mainly, although I have to say the crescent kick isnt one of my favorites. Never tried a spinning variety, but if all your teaching to get the next belt is a more and more complicated kick that doesnt work in practice whats the point? Sure jab, roundhouse kick is boring, but that doesnt make it uesless. The skill is in landing it.

Patters show you can string together moves but not the ones you use. Patterns use a completely different stance and timing which means that they dont really apply to anything else.

I know your not trying to defend my specific grading criteria, but my opinion is that belts and gradings are too abstract from the actual skill of fighting to make them a measure of progress. At best they are a harmless throwback to the tradition of the art, at worst they are a waste of time that could be better spent elsewhere. The only reason traditional martial arts schools use them is because they are traditional. If they had meaning and value other arts like boxing would use them.

Now boxing is a good example of what i means about complicated moves earlier. The basic punches of boxing are easy to learn, but impossible to perfect. The time spent perfecting the few good moves, instead of learning another badly is what makes boxing so efficient as a fighting style

That was just an example lol. What I'm trying to say is, if your grading criteria only contains simple moves, how do you separate mid belts from high belts, if both can do the moves? Its hard to judge the sense of timing or measure the degree of perfection. Say the black belt grading criteria was jab cross low kick. 95% of people in every Dojo would be a black belt. By making the moves more complicated it means that only the very advance who have a level of mastery can achieve the belt.

Tbh most times belts means you have showed a level of progression or positive attitude and experience. It does not dictate your skill ofc, and as long as nobody pretends it does, it doesn't matter. If you don't like gradings, then, just like you did, ignore them. That way, they don't hurt you. However, if you desire that black belt to be able to say you stuck with something until the highest level, then why not?

I agree to an extent, but that's a bit off topic lol I was just trying to say that gradings in themselves are not a sign of a McDojo, if that was the case, every Karate and TKD place would be a McDojo (I know a lot are anyway), but we know thats not true.

 

[Noblet10]

I have to say TKD is probably one of the more likely to have Mcdojos, but this is purely based on the popularity and how common they are. I think almost every town I've been in has a least one TKD dojo, but that definitely doesn't mean they are quality. Also, I highly doubt there are just that many TKD experts in the USA.

Belts can be good or bad. It really just depends. I'm not really a fan, but it can show progress if the instructors are awarding them correctly.

As far as the perfecting more simple techniques as opposed to learning many techniques argument, I'd say that will depend on your instructor for TKD. Some may very well decide a good basis in basic kicks and punches is much more efficient. TKD definitely has some of the best kicks in martial arts period. It also probably has the most variety, so it makes sense that you'd learn several kicks. Especially for sport TKD, you are going to need more variety in kicks to be successful than in some other martial arts.


End of story, depends on the particular gym and instructor no matter the art really.

 

[ghost scribble]

I have to say TKD is probably one of the more likely to have Mcdojos, but this is purely based on the popularity and how common they are. I think almost every town I've been in has a least one TKD dojo, but that definitely doesn't mean they are quality. Also, I highly doubt there are just that many TKD experts in the USA.

Belts can be good or bad. It really just depends. I'm not really a fan, but it can show progress if the instructors are awarding them correctly.

As far as the perfecting more simple techniques as opposed to learning many techniques argument, I'd say that will depend on your instructor for TKD. Some may very well decide a good basis in basic kicks and punches is much more efficient. TKD definitely has some of the best kicks in martial arts period. It also probably has the most variety, so it makes sense that you'd learn several kicks. Especially for sport TKD, you are going to need more variety in kicks to be successful than in some other martial arts.

End of story, depends on the particular gym and instructor no matter the art really.

I've trained at a handful of TKD schools, and all of them were mcdojo's except for the first one I went to (I moved).

Where I first learned was closer to traditional TKD, with a little Hapkido combined, so it was more of the practical, self defense attitude that the art was developed as and not pure sport like most of the mcdojo's you see.

As far as traditional martial arts go, if you see extra belts in their system, that's a sure sign of a mcdojo. One school I actually went to for a few months had belts that went like: white, white with yellow stripe, yellow, yellow with orange stripe, orange, etc. Basically just arbitrarily doubled the number of belts to cash in on those testing fees. Useless.

 

[CosItsFun]

I've trained at a handful of TKD schools, and all of them were mcdojo's except for the first one I went to (I moved).

Where I first learned was closer to traditional TKD, with a little Hapkido combined, so it was more of the practical, self defense attitude that the art was developed as and not pure sport like most of the mcdojo's you see.

As far as traditional martial arts go, if you see extra belts in their system, that's a sure sign of a mcdojo. One school I actually went to for a few months had belts that went like: white, white with yellow stripe, yellow, yellow with orange stripe, orange, etc. Basically just arbitrarily doubled the number of belts to cash in on those testing fees. Useless.

Aren't yellow tip style belts the norm for TKD? (honestly asking) Cos my friend went to a TKD place that trains Olympians and high level tkd practioners, and I remember him tleling me he was a white belt with a yellow tip or stripe or something

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

I'd say if they offer to train you teh UFC then it might be a Mcdojo.

 

[Zephyros]

I knew a martial arts instructor ran a McDojo. He himself was legit though. Wrists the size of someone's forearm, could pretty much jump his height, when he slapped a submission or wrist lock on you it made you want to poop yourself. McDojos just make money. You could tell he hated doing it, such as the children's classes, and dealing with the parents, but it was getting him paid.


Someone mentioned that Boxing is simplistic, but this isn't the case. Sure, you can categorize the techniques as "Jab, Left hook, Right Cross, Left Uppercut..." and such, but they're more like general categories of techniques. Anyone who's even intermediate level knows several variations to each, as well as preferred application and setups. Boxing is deep, complicated and technical as shit.

 

[hapkibjj]

First off there isn't really anyway to accurately discern if its a mcdojo or not... Theres no regulatory agency that says, "This is officially a McDojo, this is officially a BurgerKingDojo, this is a legit dojo, etc etc..." If someone has any martial arts experience they should easily be able to tell. However, TS is clearly asking bc he doesn't know so I'm going to assume a lack of MA experience and will provide things to consider.

You're going to need to go to a few places and sit in on a few classes. Take a look at who's in the class, what do they do in class (technique, sparring, etc.), does what you see meet your goals and what you're looking to get out of it? What about the teacher? Is it some young guy thats trying to wow you with how many different martial arts he knows and can teach you (well it may be a safe bet that that's a mcdojo...). How does he talk about his martial art and class? After you go to a few places certain things will stick in your head. You'll be able to rule out certain places, and I guarentee if you're a smart guy you'll know the place that's right for you. and chances are if you do unfortunately select a mcdojo, then chances are you could benefit from whatever it is you do learn- although I'm sure your intuition will prevail...

Another thing, be wary of the new tiny "martial-arts" places that open up in the tiny strip malls. I saw a new one open up by me and it claimed to teach about 20 different martial arts. I'm sure many people thought how cool it would be to be a black belt in nearly every MA under the sun- I'm going to venture to guess that that's probably a McDojo.

So visit at least 3 places and make your decision. If you chose wrong, it will only make you appreciate a good school when you find one.

 

[goldenera]

Well that needed to be specified . And also, no-one forces you to grade. It'd be different if the instructor was pressuring you or saying you cant train without doing it. The actual practice of having a grading, if done appropriately isn't McDokjo-ish at all.

Every Muay Thai gym I've seen in my area of London has one, including mine. And they teach good Muay Thai with numerous champions. When I went to my first inter-club, every fighter there was wearing a kit, and there was fighters from roughly 8 different clubs. Can't say on boxing though. Its not really a big deal, provided its not over priced.

1 - True, but its better than nothing, and can get people interested in basic self defence. Again, not mandatory, but if you have an interest you might enjoy it, so why not?

2 - again, you dont have to go. Plus, im not saying this justifies it, but for a lot of people this is a one off thing, whilst normal classes have repeat customers, meaning the instructor can afford to make it cheaper.

3 - Well, ofc its better to get away, but this is the real world, and you cant always get away, sometimes you have to defend yourself, and that's what self defence martial arts are all about. And that could be a problem, but I guess the idea is to get the kids interested in martial arts (if theyre that passionate to do the drill, then they probs are) and then re-enforce the discipline if they turn up to regular classes. Cmonn, its hard to get little kids perfectly disciplined in a small amount of time, but if it raises there confidence or provides them with a viable means of self defence, is it bad?

Most Thai Boxing clubs are not a high standard, there are a few that are very good though. But if they have grading they are probably even worse than you realise...

Send me the name on a PM and I will tell you what I think as I am not prepared to shame any gyms on a public forum.

BTW to another comment, a lot legit MMA gyms have fitness on the front so not to scare off most of the population, and on the subject of MMA gyms, a lot of them are also not a good standard.

 

[CosItsFun]

Most Thai Boxing clubs are not a high standard, there are a few that are very good though. But if they have grading they are probably even worse than you realise...

Send me the name on a PM and I will tell you what I think as I am not prepared to shame any gyms on a public forum.

BTW to another comment, a lot legit MMA gyms have fitness on the front so not to scare off most of the population, and on the subject of MMA gyms, a lot of them are also not a good standard.

I PM'ed you bro.
In that post, I was talking about all the clubs having a UNIFORM not a grading criteria lol.
We do have gradings as well, but it's basically a normal class, where you are pushed extra hard and observed more closely to see if you get your rank increased. Its rare that it happens, and most people aren't bothered about it. It's been mention liked 4 times in the last year lol but it is available if anybody is interested.

 

[goldenera]

I PM'ed you bro.
In that post, I was talking about all the clubs having a UNIFORM not a grading criteria lol.
We do have gradings as well, but it's basically a normal class, where you are pushed extra hard and observed more closely to see if you get your rank increased. Its rare that it happens, and most people aren't bothered about it. It's been mention liked 4 times in the last year lol but it is available if anybody is interested.

I'm guessing they just have it to appeal to the general public that do not really know what they are doing. Looks like a legit place to train.

 

[CosItsFun]

I'm guessing they just have it to appeal to the general public that do not really know what they are doing. Looks like a legit place to train.

Mehh I doubt it, my Kru knows that most people wont come back after the first class due to the training intensity, so its not really tailored to the general public, but more towards consistent and serious members, who tend not to care about rank. We all love competitions . But maybe you're right. Tbh it doesnt affect me so i dont think about it lol

 

[herbertderbert]

If they offer cardio kickboxing and there are a lot of attractive women there it is probably a McDojo.

 

[HIMBOB]

Most gracie schools are expensive, offer womens self defence courses, have anti bullying courses and require you to buy their uniforms.

Are they McDojos?????

 

[nomilkforsanta]

Most gracie schools are expensive, offer womens self defence courses, have anti bullying courses and require you to buy their uniforms.

Are they McDojos?????

I gave BJJ and Judo an exception from the uniform argument. The other two are have the spirit of a Mc-Dojo, however, every school has a few.

 

[Forgottoduck]

I am looking at a couple new gyms to go to, but some have instructors that have other FT jobs. I immediately thought those were mcdojos, any signs to look out for?

I wouldn't worry about them having FT jobs, a lot of the best gyms/coaches I've trained at/with have had FT jobs. It seems to me that most of the guys coaching in their spare time are doing it for a genuine love of the sport and wanting to coach and help people. Not sure if anyone else has had the same experiences with that as me though.

 

[NAKMUAY18]

I PM'ed you bro.
In that post, I was talking about all the clubs having a UNIFORM not a grading criteria lol.
We do have gradings as well, but it's basically a normal class, where you are pushed extra hard and observed more closely to see if you get your rank increased. Its rare that it happens, and most people aren't bothered about it. It's been mention liked 4 times in the last year lol but it is available if anybody is interested.

What are the ranks? I don't understand who decides on a ranking criteria in MT?
TKD, karate, etc have a history of belts so I can understand that, but for MT some guy must have sat at his kitchen table with a pad and made stuff up.
As for the uniforms, I can understand that a team might want a matching t-shirts or tracksuits at events to look proffessional and to promote the gym. Day to day uniforms in the gym though, that's a cash cow the owner is using to rip off his students.

 

[NAKMUAY18]

Back on subject, a gym doesn't have to be a cardio kickboxing gym to be a Mcdojo. There are plenty of blood and gut gyms out there that teach high Intensity windmilling. They are full of tough, fit guys that can brawl through a couple of ammy wins, but as soon as they meet a guy with some proper training. Done.

 

[Bay Area]

Any type of weapon disarment drills
After school programs
A van that picks up kids from school
Anti bully programs
Reatreats or karate camps
Woman defense systems against muggers.
The word "ninja" posted anywhere in the school
A cartoon of a dragon anywhere in the school
Bake sales to raise money

If I may add:

3 year old black belts
Nap time/ story time
Tutors that help with homework
Arts and crafts time
Recess
Field trips that require permission slips from parents
The word "fun" anywhere on the building

 

[SummerStriker]

What are the ranks? I don't understand who decides on a ranking criteria in MT?
TKD, karate, etc have a history of belts so I can understand that, but for MT some guy must have sat at his kitchen table with a pad and made stuff up.
As for the uniforms, I can understand that a team might want a matching t-shirts or tracksuits at events to look proffessional and to promote the gym. Day to day uniforms in the gym though, that's a cash cow the owner is using to rip off his students.

I wouldn't call it a cash cow. Karate pants + t-shirt cost 25 bucks and sells for what, 40?

250 students * 2 uniforms * 15 dollars profit = 7500 dollars

7500 dollars over a couple years ain't shit.

 

[NAKMUAY18]

Say the owner makes $30 on the uniform (more likely than $15 for 2 items that you can't buy anywhere else) has 300 students with 3 uniforms and that change gear every 2 years, that's quickly turned into over $13000 a year.
You can twist figures anyway you want, bottom line is that it creates a monopoly on where you get your gear from.
As well as looking a bit cheesy.