How can you say Jon Jones isn't the GOAT?!?!?

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He has a bad record with the police department here in ABQ
 
Jon Jones is a cheater - steroids, drugs and eye pokes all the time. If he didnt put fingers into Gustafson eyes maybe Gus could win that fight. He also duck Cain Velasquez. A lot of people ask him to fight again Cain and he always afraid like a little girl.
 
Gangstub said:
Inb4 someone says

Jon Jones lost to
usada_logo.jpg


Jones has only popped for 1 fight, he beat DC clean the first time. Don't even try the PED excuse.
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They were scheduled to fight three times, Jones failed on both occasions that were under USADA. But yeah, let's assume that he was magically clean only when testing sucked, that makes a ton of sense. Jones literally failed more tests than he has wins on his official record since USADA started working with the UFC.
 
Because he's only fought 23 times and only has fought men smaller than himself. The one time he fought anyone about his size, he arguably lost....Oh and he's a cheater.
 
It's not cheating when your opponent is juicing too. Unfortunately for Jon Jones, he wasn't fighting in PRIDE FC.

Not the GOAT.
 
Senzo Tanaka said:
Same reason why people don't consider Lance Armstrong the greatest cyclist anymore.

For some reason, cheating doesn't matter in MMA/UFC to people but does in every other sport. I think that says something about the credibility and meat-headed nature of fighting. It pays to cheat and doesn't hurt your legacy in fighting.
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I am usually in agreement with this basic premise, but in this real world "things" have gotten out of hand. I believe that the Human species is inflicted with the pendulum effect. A 180 degree turn is WRONG 99.99999% of the time.

Obviously, serious PED's should not be allowed in any sport. With that said, walk into any health/ vitamin store and over half the products on the shelf will cause athletes for fail this "absolute zero tolerance policy".

I don't have the answer, but when a multi billion dollar industry exists LEGALLY selling these multitude of compounds that are ILLEGAL in professional sports to 100% of the USA population, make me UNDERSTAND that we are easily just as bad now as we were pre testing.

Takin a damn aspirin should not tarnish an athletes pedigree.

I am an old timer, and remember when Gatorade commercials were based on the glorification of what is now considered a death sentence to today's over the top standard. The commercial stated that the heat in Florida (!Gators!) was so intense that the opposing team(s) which strictly used water for hydration could simply not compete against this new compound providing electrolytes to the process of dehydration. No beating around the bush with Gatorade. The PROMOTED unfair advantage over an opponent due to scientific improvements.

The world is different, The PED testing must change to match the real world today. Cut the "Illegal supplements" down from millions to a few dozen of the worst. Make the first offense a lifetime ban zero exception at that time.

There truly are literally too many legal supplements that are not legal in professional sports to make this war sustainable.
 
1) Jones is a PED using cheat
2) Jones fought smaller guys
3) Jones is a dirty fighter, eye poker

Jones isn't and will never be the GOAT.

giphy.gif
 
1. PED cheat, stripped of the title 3 times.

2. Cheats in the ring with more eyepokes than any fighter in history.

3. Dodged HW for years and admitted most of those guys are too big for him.

4. Hasn't done anything in years. His last great win was Cormier over 3.5 years ago. The dude is 31 now and is heading into the years where guys start losing. That is if he is even allowed to come back in the next 2 or 3 years. Plus, who knows what he will look like off of PEDs, which we have probably never seen before.
 
screaminleeman said:
I am usually in agreement with this basic premise, but in this real world "things" have gotten out of hand. I believe that the Human species is inflicted with the pendulum effect. A 180 degree turn is WRONG 99.99999% of the time.

Obviously, serious PED's should not be allowed in any sport. With that said, walk into any health/ vitamin store and over half the products on the shelf will cause athletes for fail this "absolute zero tolerance policy".

I don't have the answer, but when a multi billion dollar industry exists LEGALLY selling these multitude of compounds that are ILLEGAL in professional sports to 100% of the USA population, make me UNDERSTAND that we are easily just as bad now as we were pre testing.

Takin a damn aspirin should not tarnish an athletes pedigree.

I am an old timer, and remember when Gatorade commercials were based on the glorification of what is now considered a death sentence to today's over the top standard. The commercial stated that the heat in Florida (!Gators!) was so intense that the opposing team(s) which strictly used water for hydration could simply not compete against this new compound providing electrolytes to the process of dehydration. No beating around the bush with Gatorade. The PROMOTED unfair advantage over an opponent due to scientific improvements.

The world is different, The PED testing must change to match the real world today. Cut the "Illegal supplements" down from millions to a few dozen of the worst. Make the first offense a lifetime ban zero exception at that time.

There truly are literally too many legal supplements that are not legal in professional sports to make this war sustainable.
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My take on PEDs is simply what are the rules? In PRIDE, they specifically said that steroids weren't tested for. At that point, I have zero problems with guys taking steroids.

In the UFC, it says that steroids, TRT, HGH, etc are illegal. At that point, if you take those drugs, you are cheating in my eyes.

You are gaming the system and trying to get an advantage over guys that aren't taking them. That's not fair at that point and you have an unnatural advantage over your opponents.

All I want is an even playing field as much as possible. Whether that means PEDs are legal or illegal is irrelevant to me. What I don't want is guys cheating and not following the rules. I want to know who the best fighter is when I watch MMA. If the rules say no PEDs and you are on PEDs, that taints the outcome and in Jones' case, there is now that doubt in my mind if it was drugs or just his natural talent.
 
KingOfTheDojo said:
I'm not a Jones fan but it's obvious by now that literally the ENTIRE roster was on something pre-USADA
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I expect you're right. But the ones getting caught either:

1) Used really cheap drugs because they couldn't afford the ones used to beat tests.
2) Have IQ's in the 70 range (ie can't follow a simple procedure).
3) Use higher doses than everyone else hoping to get an advantage - its the difference between driving 10 mph over the speed limit and getting away with it, and driving 50 mph over the speed limit and getting caught.

Jones can afford the best drugs, is smart and so would have no problem following procedure. That means he was using higher dosages than those not testing positive.
 
ortizgnp said:
Everybody in the know still does.
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this is true. I have been doing research lately and have come across numerous substances that are currently undetectable through any drug test. the best cheaters will always be a step ahead of the testing.
 
Drugs aside...

Jones might be the greatest MMA fighter so far, I wouldn't argue against it, but he's also over rated. He's beatable.
 
Hit and run while high on coke takes you out of any positive discussions.

What a terrible monster, society needs to be protected from him.
 
No fighter that has every fought in Pride or the UFC is the GOAT, so it's pointless talking about it.
 
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