How can Canelo be 'Great' when..

[PUO3]

Canelo couldn't even drop or stop the likes the chavez jnr, and now he's going to just destroy Benavidez? lol. He has recently fought a bunch of old or soft fighters and fools acting like he's a prime Tyson.

So it seems most people simply don't care Canelo's best prime opponent was Caleb Plant, and a bunch of 35+ year olds.



You must be new to boxing.


PUO3 If they ever do fight, I will wager my posting privileges' in the boxing forum on my pick. I wonder if you would have the balls to do the same?)))

Why would i want you to leave the forum after your boy gets beat down? Id much prefer to laugh at you for the following months about how hilariously wrong youve been about it.

Also, money>your shitty account

 

[stuff jones]

OPs facts are facts, as much hemming and hawing as the Canelo fans do when they're pointed out.

Canelo cowardly ducked prime GGG, which somehow his fans overlook in their praise for him. And he hasn't fought great talent in their primes. Both are facts, and demerits against his legacy.

 

[koquerelle]

If he's not great, can you please name a few fighters who are?

 

[Hagler]

OPs facts are facts, as much hemming and hawing as the Canelo fans do when they're pointed out.

Canelo cowardly ducked prime GGG, which somehow his fans overlook in their praise for him. And he hasn't fought great talent in their primes. Both are facts, and demerits against his legacy.

Meh. Golovkin holds a world title belt 3 years after he got beaten by Alvarez. You may be a GGG fan and still acknowledge it’s kind of logical he looked more dominant against lesser boxers than Jacobs and Canelo. He wasn’t exactly the first boxer in History to extend his prime to his mid-30s. If anything he looked damn good against Canelo.

 

[WHITELIONBAR]

Every big name on his Resume was 35+ when he fought them?

Mosley -41
Floyd 36
GGG 35/36
Cotto -35
Kovalev - 36

The best prime fighters he has faced was probably Trout? Plant? When has Canelo ever fought a prime killer? I can't see any on his whole resume? The facts prove he only fights old fighters or weak punchers who offer no real threat especially when judges favor him so much.

Is that all it takes to be an ATG? The 4x division champ might sound impressive on paper, along with the resume names, but if you really examine his body of work its nowhere near impressive enough to be in the conversation for ATG status. He is just a HOF level fighter. Mubaku is 34 so he is another mid 30s opponent.

Manufactured greatness sorry. Oscar had a far more impressive career.

B-hop was 46 when he won the belt he beat the division regardless of age , glover texeira is lhw ufc champ at 42 you fight who is there

 

[PUO3]

OPs facts are facts, as much hemming and hawing as the Canelo fans do when they're pointed out.

Canelo cowardly ducked prime GGG, which somehow his fans overlook in their praise for him. And he hasn't fought great talent in their primes. Both are facts, and demerits against his legacy.

Hes fought and beat better talents than Golovkin has and also beat Golovkin so lets move forward already lol

 

[YourBoss]

GGG was P4P Nr. 1 at this point. Kovaev was still a legit LHW champ with 2 good wins before the fight. Cotto was not past it either. Jacobs, Smith, Saunders, Lara, Trout and Plant were all in their prime.

 

[JayE]

If he's not great, can you please name a few fighters who are?

David Benavidez. Jose Benavidez is borderline, too.

 

[deucesarewild]

Meh. Golovkin holds a world title belt 3 years after he got beaten by Alvarez. You may be a GGG fan and still acknowledge it’s kind of logical he looked more dominant against lesser boxers than Jacobs and Canelo. He wasn’t exactly the first boxer in History to extend his prime to his mid-30s. If anything he looked damn good against Canelo.

The point is he was past his peak, while maybe at the tail end of his prime. At the highest level, victory and defeat is separated by the slightest, nearly imperceptible of variables. Damn good he might have looked, it's reasonable to deduce that he would have been even better had he been at the pex of his career. High output fighters age out sooner than lower output fighters.

 

[Woldog]

Every big name on his Resume was 35+ when he fought them?

Mosley -41
Floyd 36
GGG 35/36
Cotto -35
Kovalev - 36

The best prime fighters he has faced was probably Trout? Plant? When has Canelo ever fought a prime killer? I can't see any on his whole resume? The facts prove he only fights old fighters or weak punchers who offer no real threat especially when judges favor him so much.

Is that all it takes to be an ATG? The 4x division champ might sound impressive on paper, along with the resume names, but if you really examine his body of work its nowhere near impressive enough to be in the conversation for ATG status. He is just a HOF level fighter. Mubaku is 34 so he is another mid 30s opponent.

Manufactured greatness sorry. Oscar had a far more impressive career.

Dude can't choose when he was born lmao. This is a pretty shit take.

This is simlar to saying All these guys avoided Canelo at his best by being born earlier.

 

[Roids]

Dude can't choose when he was born lmao. This is a pretty shit take.

This is simlar to saying All these guys avoided Canelo at his best by being born earlier.

No. I just detailed the facts. You are now trying to give justifications, which is irrelevant to my point of every notable name being 35+ when it comes to resume analysis of fighters. For whatever reason the facts weigh against his legacy.

 

[Woldog]

No. I just detailed the facts. You are now trying to give justifications, which is irrelevant to my point of every notable name being 35+ when it comes to resume analysis of fighters. For whatever reason the facts weigh against his legacy.

You can only fight whats in front of you pal. If he didn't fight them he'd be accused of avoiding old men. You can flip a narrative anyway you want in boxing.

 

[Woldog]

Matchmaking in boxing isn't as easy as people who have never fought professionally seem to think it is. There is a lot of bullshit to cut through to get to an agreement. Sure people avoid people, but it isn't as clear cut as just deciding to fight. Fighters don't pick their opponents their management do. That's quite literally why we have managers. They manage our careers and choose the fights that they think best suit us, Yes we can ask for a specific fighter and our manager can put the word in but then you have to deal with the other fighters manager.
To make a fight your dealing with the ego of at least 6 people. Two promoters, two managers and two fighters (Before you take into account trainers, corner men, family members all in the manager and promoters ear). Tell me what universe that goes smoothly in?

Or better yet, tell me (A professional boxer) how it works I'd love to hear your expertise in the matter.

 

[Hagler]

The point is he was past his peak, while maybe at the tail end of his prime. At the highest level, victory and defeat is separated by the slightest, nearly imperceptible of variables. Damn good he might have looked, it's reasonable to deduce that he would have been even better had he been at the pex of his career. High output fighters age out sooner than lower output fighters.

It’s also reasonable to believe what we saw. If Canelo’s people were expecting a lesser version of GGG to show up in 2017 I’d say this part of the plan didn’t work very well. Golovkin didn’t look slow or sloppy IMO, he looked puzzled by Canelo’s counters and head movement in the first bout then the lack of space he had left in fight 2 when Canelo moved forward. Also, Canelo took his punch and he wasn’t used to it, which isn’t about fighting him at 33 or 35. I was rooting for GGG both times but I don’t buy the age excuse as easily as many. I can see why they do, to me he didn’t look over the hill until he fought Derevyanchenko, to each his own I guess.

 

[JSN]

Oscars complicated. On one hand he almost/arguably beat Mayweather but on the other hand once he lost his 0 he lost against every ATG he faced over the last decade of his career. While some of said losses were close others were not. He's more of a case of manufactured greatness as his PPV numbers(which by proxy also created Money Mayweather) stand out far more than his sporting accomplishments.

The main case Canelo has is moving up to different weights and being successful, Oscar(who is bigger than Canelo) could not beat the best once he went up in weight and he wasn't going up nearly as high.

Now you raise a good point Oscar fought better competition in arguably the golden age(no pun intended) of non HW boxing but he lost to most of that better competition. Canelo didn't do as good against Mayweather but he also fought Mayweather earlier in his career and Canelo has plausible deniability when someone says he couldn't have handled him at his best.

I agree with you about stacking up alphabet belts in alphabet division being a misleading accomplishment it's part of why I argue so hard against "champ champs" in MMA. However in boxing the division and belt system has been so throughly destroyed that at this point you got to division hop in order to compile a historically notable resume(except HW). It can be called manufactured greatness but what's the alternative?

I think that’s a little harsh. He has wins over at least near prime Chavez, Camacho, and Whitaker. Couple that with a gold medal, a pretty face, and an exciting style, and you’ve got the closest thing to guaranteed superstardom, and it was well deserved.

I see Oscar as a fairly typical superstar. He won some starmaker fights on the way up against slightly aged forces of nature when he was at his best weight, and then he aged and fought up a bit, and became the starmaker.

 

[JayE]

There used to be people who thought Canelo was ducking Martin Murray and David Lemieux. Not just passing comments. Committed takes spanning months, if not years.

There was more than one poster who said Martin Murray would stop Canelo.

 

[Area809]

The general consensus is that fighters in their mid 30s are past their prime as boxers especially in the lower weight classes below HW, in case you didn't notice they are very close to retirement age at that point, and I assume its not because they are still in their primes. I know the fan boys are going to try and rewrite history to suit Canelo and pretend mid 30s is fighting prime, but I am sticking to historical consensus here.



There are rare exceptions to every rule and apart from floyd all those fighters had clearly slipped in performance. Floyd was still high level and the fight was not even close, which is another big negative to his ATG claims.



Your bolded sentence is just circular, you are saying nothing there. He is soon going to be fighting at 190+ so.

Oscar fought a bunch of beasts in their prime, not just very good fighters but great fighters, he never ducked anyone, yet everyone just raves about Canelo being the greatest mexican. Comedy.

Fans focus on age and not performance for some reason. Those fighters were still performing just fine when they fought Canelo. I’ve seen fighters have shitty fights in their prime. Unrelated, but I found myself debating someone who was saying the Celtics super team of the late 2000s was not a super team because the big 3 were past their prime. Yet, the numbers and the results show they were just as good as ever. It’s all a subjective take anyways. You can take any fighter’s record and shred it to pieces if you wanted to, specially in boxing.

 

[PUO3]

There used to be people who thought Canelo was ducking Martin Murray and David Lemieux. Not just passing comments. Committed takes spanning months, if not years.

There was more than one poster who said Martin Murray would stop Canelo.

Dont forget Callum Smith.

 

[SandisLL]

This is simlar to saying All these guys avoided Canelo at his best by being born earlier.

Canelo had been developed into big money earning guy by Oscar and he should be thankful cos this not to shit on Oscar.
Oscar had get him Mosley fight ( vs half alive big name's wreck ), this turned him into really big cash cow.

Matchmaking in boxing isn't as easy as people who have never fought professionally seem to think it is.

Ofc it isn't easy even in low and local level, not alone higher level.
It is career job, it is not fear or bullshit, it is fight for possible career, maybe, nothing less or more.
Damn hard thing even in local, not alone higher level.

 

[SandisLL]

Fighters don't pick their opponents their management do.

It might be even more complicated:
boxer's team ( read gym etc )
boxer's manager
boxer's investors/ sponsors
boxer's promoter

and vuala till end here:
fight card should be approved by local commission and ............fight event's Promoter.