How can anyone say that a guy who's never been beaten or even rocked, is not the GOAT?

Discussion in 'The Lightweights' started by TheToqueville, Aug 9, 2019.

  1. Underdog bjj jp

    Underdog bjj jp Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2014
    Messages:
    6,019
    Likes Received:
    8,041
    Location:
    Connecticut
    When jones got suspended for being a roid fien, i honestly forgot about him
     
  2. Oogie Sharp

    Oogie Sharp Red Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2006
    Messages:
    9,442
    Likes Received:
    1,224
    Location:
    Canada
    Maybe because you're making the statement while the guy is in mid-career and hasn't suffered those end of career losses yet, like they all do.
     
    suffersystem likes this.
  3. Oogie Sharp

    Oogie Sharp Red Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2006
    Messages:
    9,442
    Likes Received:
    1,224
    Location:
    Canada
    Lol..just noticed this guys got the exact same thread in the lightweight forum. Damn dude. <45>
     
  4. Ironnik94

    Ironnik94 White Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2019
    Messages:
    77
    Likes Received:
    72
    Well, football (soccer) is the biggest Sport - and while it would make sense for the players to take PED's, the risk of a scandal, with all the tons of media attention regarding football, makes it imho extremely unlikely for that to be the case. There's too much at stake.
    But also: You can be both muscular and have very good cardio. People act like it's impossible to be both a muscular and a enduring fighter.. and honestly, i think there are some high-level fighters who're not even that close to their natural overall athletic potential.
     
  5. kflo

    kflo Steel Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2008
    Messages:
    29,298
    Likes Received:
    9,600
    You don’t really think it’s logical that the bigger and more lucrative the sport the less likely to cheat do you? Their testing isn’t the most robust either....
     
  6. krelianx

    krelianx Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2002
    Messages:
    14,549
    Likes Received:
    9,010
    Location:
    Los Angeles, California
    Taking PEDs is cheating, and in my opinion disqualifies you from consideration. They give you an advantage, significant with regard to recovery, reaction time, capacity to train, aggressivity, endurance. It puts a question mark behind his record, whether you like it or not.

    There is too much evidence of what happened to fighters' performance after USADA kicked in, or to fighters that were no longer allowed to take TRT.

    Jon has not looked even close to his previous self since he has returned. He very well could have lost the decision to Santos, and he looked lethargic against Smith.

    You can't simply assume he would have had the same success without steroids. And while you might speculate all of his former opponents were on steroids too, you can't assume they were. That is not a fair playing game. Would have he won against Gustaffson without steroids the first time around? It's not an assumption one can simply make.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2019
    Ironnik94 likes this.
  7. Ironnik94

    Ironnik94 White Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2019
    Messages:
    77
    Likes Received:
    72
    I know that with those amounts of money involved it'd make sense to cheat (from a financial standpoint) i honestly agree with you there man, but a PED-scandal in football (i'm talking about soccer here!) would make such big waves and cause so much chaos, that it's just too much to risk. Let's say for example, that some kind of Whistleblower would reveal, that 7 key players of Real Madrid tested positive for EPO - right after Real Madrid won the League in front of Barcelona - If the umbrella organizations would react accordingly, they'd subtract maybe 40-60% of the points Real Madrid made this season, or they'd even go as far as relegating Real Madrid into the league below. If however, those umbrella organizations would pull some shady levers and somehow make it possible for Real Madrid to not lose a single point, the fans of Barcelona (and probably even other clubs) would completely riot. They'd definitely go on a rampage and smash everything to bits that has anything to do with Real Madrid. Real Madrid fans would be harrassed wherever they go (besides Madrid). It'd honestly be complete Chaos. Now don't get me wrong, the sport of football we're talking about is hopelessly corrupt in many instances, but a club allowing their players to do PEDs or making it possible for them to take PEDs (through not strict enough testing) would put that very club into waters so dangerous (for itself), that swimming down the Nile with a bleeding wound would seem like a walk in the park in comparison.
    BTW: Why do you think the testing in football (soccer) isn't the most robust? I've heard that about the NFL i think, but as far as i know it's pretty darn strict in the football i'm talking about - feel free to correct me though, i don't know everything of course.
     
  8. kflo

    kflo Steel Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2008
    Messages:
    29,298
    Likes Received:
    9,600
    You’re making an assumption he was on steroids against Gus.......
     
  9. krelianx

    krelianx Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2002
    Messages:
    14,549
    Likes Received:
    9,010
    Location:
    Los Angeles, California
    That he popped as soon as USADA came in, that there's testimony of him hiding under a cage to avoid testing, that he failed 2/3 of his first tests under enhanced testing, that there is testimony of him doing steroids in college (by Colby), and the fact that 3/4 performances under enhanced testing have been unarguably his weakest yet (OSP, Smith, and Santos) casts a retroactive shadow over his record.

    It doesn't prove he was on steroids, but it gives very good reasons to think he was. Would he start taking steroids only when enhanced testing entered the stage? That seems not only implausible, but idiotic.
     
    Ironnik94 likes this.
  10. kflo

    kflo Steel Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2008
    Messages:
    29,298
    Likes Received:
    9,600
    There’s no “testimony”. There’s a rumor with no first hand witness on record.

    He popped and it was determined by an arbitration panel to be from a dick pill and “not a drug cheat”.

    All we know is testing improved for m3 metabolites in 2016 and he’s only ever flagged for traces and his first flag was 3 weeks after not flagging. And typical tbol cycles are for weeks.

    Not sure what you think you know....
     
  11. krelianx

    krelianx Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2002
    Messages:
    14,549
    Likes Received:
    9,010
    Location:
    Los Angeles, California
    We don't know of the first hand witnesses, but we know of people who heard such witnesses. More than one person has testified to this, including Chael. You can choose not to believe this story, and accuse the people who heard this of lying, but it seems like wishful thinking. Colby also gave first person testimony of Jon doing steroids in college, and frankly as far as I know he hasn't made similar accusations against anyone.

    He popped for the m3 turinabol metabolite in residual quantities, recently, but he served a suspension for that. I don't believe he has taken tbol since, given what the evidence shows. But he did at some point.
     
    sickness666 and Ironnik94 like this.
  12. kflo

    kflo Steel Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2008
    Messages:
    29,298
    Likes Received:
    9,600
    Chael? C’mon.

    Chael heard it from a friend who heard it from a friend...

    We don’t know when the m3 was first in his system. Again it’s unlikely he was using right before he flagged the first time. It doesn’t make a lot of sense.

    And believe me I’m not claiming he never used.

    Of course, I wouldn’t claim that for most fighters...
     
  13. krelianx

    krelianx Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2002
    Messages:
    14,549
    Likes Received:
    9,010
    Location:
    Los Angeles, California
    I mean, make of this what you will:



    But I think it takes a bit of blindness to think this would all be a fabrication.
     
  14. sickness666

    sickness666 Yellow Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
    Messages:
    239
    Likes Received:
    191
    You've proven your obsession with Jones. And I have my opinion.
    I have had it exclusively about Jones. Gus has nothing to do with it.
    But is quite ridiculous to want to talk out on this path.
    As I wrote before, it shows your character when you see a) Jones as a GOAT and b) need someone else's mistakes to make Jones look good.

    And btw:
    Most people who take cocaine take it out for one reason at first: because they want to feel better, bolder. And then, when the psychic addiction comes, they do it like you do with Jones: they find excuses for needing it.
    Think about it, you childish idiot!
     
  15. Goober stoober

    Goober stoober Yellow Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2016
    Messages:
    217
    Likes Received:
    157
    He's literally bigger and longer than everyone in the division....

    You think he'd be unbeaten at hw?

    All the greats move up but Jones is content with fighting smaller guys. I just see it for what it is.

    It's not to say he's not a great fighter but he certainly isn't looking for challenges. It's why mighty mouse was so hated on this forum. Ppl wanna see you test yourself, not front run.
     
  16. Bobbybackpack

    Bobbybackpack Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,814
    Likes Received:
    928
    What about Khabib?
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.