How can anyone say that a guy who's never been beaten or even rocked, is not the GOAT?

[Underdog bjj jp]

When jones got suspended for being a roid fien, i honestly forgot about him

 

[Oogie Sharp]

Maybe because you're making the statement while the guy is in mid-career and hasn't suffered those end of career losses yet, like they all do.

 

[Oogie Sharp]

Lol..just noticed this guys got the exact same thread in the lightweight forum. Damn dude. <45>

 

[Iron Nick]

And why do you think they’re all clean?

Well, football (soccer) is the biggest Sport - and while it would make sense for the players to take PED's, the risk of a scandal, with all the tons of media attention regarding football, makes it imho extremely unlikely for that to be the case. There's too much at stake.
But also: You can be both muscular and have very good cardio. People act like it's impossible to be both a muscular and a enduring fighter.. and honestly, i think there are some high-level fighters who're not even that close to their natural overall athletic potential.

 

[kflo]

Well, football (soccer) is the biggest Sport - and while it would make sense for the players to take PED's, the risk of a scandal, with all the tons of media attention regarding football, makes it imho extremely unlikely for that to be the case. There's too much at stake.
But also: You can be both muscular and have very good cardio. People act like it's impossible to be both a muscular and a enduring fighter.. and honestly, i think there are some high-level fighters who're not even that close to their natural overall athletic potential.

You don’t really think it’s logical that the bigger and more lucrative the sport the less likely to cheat do you? Their testing isn’t the most robust either....

 

[krelianx]

Serious question, I'm extremely confused. We have a group of guys who are all considered top fighters. Jones, Silva, Fedor, DC, Aldo and GSP.

Of these fighters, only ONE has never even been put on queer street in a fight, let alone beaten by another man in the octagon.....and he did this while snorting coke and partying, instead of training.

Let me reiterate.....HE'S NEVER EVEN BEEN ROCKED IN A FIGHT.
I don't care about his life outside of the cage.......in the cage, we've NEVER seen another fighter as dominant as Jones.

I'm really curious about this. Some of it I'm sure is racial bias, some of it is nationality bias ( people from Russia, Canada, etc. ) and some people are taking his life outside of the cage and letting it influence their thoughts on his fighting skills, but those are all subjective and misplaced preferences.


OBJECTIVELY speaking, Jones has NEVER LOST to another fighter. He's never even been rocked. There's literally no RATIONAL argument that can be made for anyone else being the GOAT.

Taking PEDs is cheating, and in my opinion disqualifies you from consideration. They give you an advantage, significant with regard to recovery, reaction time, capacity to train, aggressivity, endurance. It puts a question mark behind his record, whether you like it or not.

There is too much evidence of what happened to fighters' performance after USADA kicked in, or to fighters that were no longer allowed to take TRT.

Jon has not looked even close to his previous self since he has returned. He very well could have lost the decision to Santos, and he looked lethargic against Smith.

You can't simply assume he would have had the same success without steroids. And while you might speculate all of his former opponents were on steroids too, you can't assume they were. That is not a fair playing game. Would have he won against Gustaffson without steroids the first time around? It's not an assumption one can simply make.

 

[Iron Nick]

You don’t really think it’s logical that the bigger and more lucrative the sport the less likely to cheat do you? Their testing isn’t the most robust either....

I know that with those amounts of money involved it'd make sense to cheat (from a financial standpoint) i honestly agree with you there man, but a PED-scandal in football (i'm talking about soccer here!) would make such big waves and cause so much chaos, that it's just too much to risk. Let's say for example, that some kind of Whistleblower would reveal, that 7 key players of Real Madrid tested positive for EPO - right after Real Madrid won the League in front of Barcelona - If the umbrella organizations would react accordingly, they'd subtract maybe 40-60% of the points Real Madrid made this season, or they'd even go as far as relegating Real Madrid into the league below. If however, those umbrella organizations would pull some shady levers and somehow make it possible for Real Madrid to not lose a single point, the fans of Barcelona (and probably even other clubs) would completely riot. They'd definitely go on a rampage and smash everything to bits that has anything to do with Real Madrid. Real Madrid fans would be harrassed wherever they go (besides Madrid). It'd honestly be complete Chaos. Now don't get me wrong, the sport of football we're talking about is hopelessly corrupt in many instances, but a club allowing their players to do PEDs or making it possible for them to take PEDs (through not strict enough testing) would put that very club into waters so dangerous (for itself), that swimming down the Nile with a bleeding wound would seem like a walk in the park in comparison.
BTW: Why do you think the testing in football (soccer) isn't the most robust? I've heard that about the NFL i think, but as far as i know it's pretty darn strict in the football i'm talking about - feel free to correct me though, i don't know everything of course.

 

[kflo]

Taking PEDs is cheating, and in my opinion disqualifies you from consideration. They give you an advantage, significant with regard to recovery, reaction time, capacity to train, aggressivity, endurance. It puts a question mark behind his record, whether you like it or not.

There is too much evidence of what happened to fighters' performance after USADA kicked in, or to fighters that were no longer allowed to take TRT.

Jon has not looked even close to his previous self since he has returned. He very well could have lost the decision to Santos, and he looked lethargic against Smith.

You can't simply assume he would have had the same success without steroids. And while you might speculate all of his former opponents were on steroids too, you can't assume they were. That is not a fair playing game. Would have he won against Gustaffson without steroids the first time around? It's not an assumption one can simply make.

You’re making an assumption he was on steroids against Gus.......

 

[krelianx]

You’re making an assumption he was on steroids against Gus.......

That he popped as soon as USADA came in, that there's testimony of him hiding under a cage to avoid testing, that he failed 2/3 of his first tests under enhanced testing, that there is testimony of him doing steroids in college (by Colby), and the fact that 3/4 performances under enhanced testing have been unarguably his weakest yet (OSP, Smith, and Santos) casts a retroactive shadow over his record.

It doesn't prove he was on steroids, but it gives very good reasons to think he was. Would he start taking steroids only when enhanced testing entered the stage? That seems not only implausible, but idiotic.

 

[kflo]

That he popped as soon as USADA came in, that there's testimony of him hiding under a cage to avoid testing, that he failed 2/3 of his first tests under enhanced testing, that there is testimony of him doing steroids in college (by Colby), and the fact that 3/4 performances under enhanced testing have been unarguably his weakest yet (OSP, Smith, and Santos) casts a retroactive shadow over his record.

It doesn't prove he was on steroids, but it gives very good reasons to think he was. Would he start taking steroids only when enhanced testing entered the stage? That seems not only implausible, but idiotic.

There’s no “testimony”. There’s a rumor with no first hand witness on record.

He popped and it was determined by an arbitration panel to be from a dick pill and “not a drug cheat”.

All we know is testing improved for m3 metabolites in 2016 and he’s only ever flagged for traces and his first flag was 3 weeks after not flagging. And typical tbol cycles are for weeks.

Not sure what you think you know....

 

[krelianx]

There’s no “testimony”. There’s a rumor with no first hand witness on record.

He popped and it was determined by an arbitration panel to be from a dick pill and “not a drug cheat”.

All we know is testing improved for m3 metabolites in 2016 and he’s only ever flagged for traces and his first flag was 3 weeks after not flagging. And typical tbol cycles are for weeks.

Not sure what you think you know....

We don't know of the first hand witnesses, but we know of people who heard such witnesses. More than one person has testified to this, including Chael. You can choose not to believe this story, and accuse the people who heard this of lying, but it seems like wishful thinking. Colby also gave first person testimony of Jon doing steroids in college, and frankly as far as I know he hasn't made similar accusations against anyone.

He popped for the m3 turinabol metabolite in residual quantities, recently, but he served a suspension for that. I don't believe he has taken tbol since, given what the evidence shows. But he did at some point.

 

[kflo]

We don't know of the first hand witnesses, but we know of people who heard such witnesses. More than one person has testified to this, including Chael. You can choose not to believe this story, and accuse the people who heard this of lying, but it seems like wishful thinking. Colby also gave first person testimony of Jon doing steroids in college, and frankly as far as I know he hasn't made similar accusations against anyone.

He popped for the m3 turinabol metabolite in residual quantities, recently, but he served a suspension for that. I don't believe he has taken tbol since, given what the evidence shows. But he did at some point.

Chael? C’mon.

Chael heard it from a friend who heard it from a friend...

We don’t know when the m3 was first in his system. Again it’s unlikely he was using right before he flagged the first time. It doesn’t make a lot of sense.

And believe me I’m not claiming he never used.

Of course, I wouldn’t claim that for most fighters...

 

[krelianx]

Chael? C’mon.

Chael heard it from a friend who heard it from a friend...

We don’t know when the m3 was first in his system. Again it’s unlikely he was using right before he flagged the first time. It doesn’t make a lot of sense.

And believe me I’m not claiming he never used.

Of course, I wouldn’t claim that for most fighters...

I mean, make of this what you will:



But I think it takes a bit of blindness to think this would all be a fabrication.

 

[sickness666]

Jones hit a pregnant woman's car, but did he actually assault and beat up women like Gus did? How are you going to justify liking Gus to your future kids? If you're going to be hypocritical, at least try to hide it more.

Doing cocaine has nothing to do with how good of a fighter he is. Every sports figure that you like is a preist and has never done any drugs right?

You've proven your obsession with Jones. And I have my opinion.
I have had it exclusively about Jones. Gus has nothing to do with it.
But is quite ridiculous to want to talk out on this path.
As I wrote before, it shows your character when you see a) Jones as a GOAT and b) need someone else's mistakes to make Jones look good.

And btw:
Most people who take cocaine take it out for one reason at first: because they want to feel better, bolder. And then, when the psychic addiction comes, they do it like you do with Jones: they find excuses for needing it.
Think about it, you childish idiot!

 

[Goober stoober]

Come on man, I get you're desperate to justify hating him, but you can do better than that.

He's literally bigger and longer than everyone in the division....

You think he'd be unbeaten at hw?

All the greats move up but Jones is content with fighting smaller guys. I just see it for what it is.

It's not to say he's not a great fighter but he certainly isn't looking for challenges. It's why mighty mouse was so hated on this forum. Ppl wanna see you test yourself, not front run.

 

[Bobbybackpack]

Why does any fighter use performance enhancers?

And we aren't talking about Bisping or Hunt, probably the only 2 guys who have never touched an enhancer.

What about Khabib?