How can anyone look at '04 Hughes, '10 Shields and '19 Colby/Usman and say the sport has evolved?

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by Bend NvR Break, Mar 24, 2020.

  1. 560ti

    560ti Brown Belt

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    I agree 100x with this. Look at Guy Mezger for example

    Mezger was a state champion wrestler, professional kickboxing, brown belt in BJJ, and had 46 professional MMA fights.

    It's been almost 20 years since his last fight and his skillset/credentials still hold value today.

    The main thing that's changed since then is like you said athletisism (Mezger was small for the weight class and due to poor training methods had too many gym wars leading to his chin detoriating).

    The exact replica of Mezger in 2020 would be a middleweight training at ATT and would arguably be a top 15 fighter in the world
     
  2. Bend NvR Break

    Bend NvR Break Order to Chaos. Chaos to Order.

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    Hughes was a huge WW. Well over 200 pounds. Colby could fight at 155. He's said multiple times that he fights at 170 to avoid the weight cut and have a better gas tank.

    Hughes in 04 is bigger and stronger than Colby in 19. That shouldn't be questioned.


    This colby literally saying 170-180 pounds is his natural weight. He doesn't cut weight. He eats down to 170.

    Hughes walked around at 200+ pounds and cut to 170. (Different era. Easier to rehydrate with IVs)
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2020
  3. mst-dot

    mst-dot Brown Belt

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    In terms of size i place alot more weight on your college weight in general.. I could be wrong, but i. My experience its usually the case.

    Either way they wrestled the cream of the crop at 174. Heisnt overwheming them with brute strength like he did at 158
    .

    Combined with the obvious striking disadvantage which is easy to see with the naked eye and basicaly non debatable.


    Neither of them get tired either
     
  4. Bend NvR Break

    Bend NvR Break Order to Chaos. Chaos to Order.

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    I don't see an obvious striking advantage/disadvantage. While Colby might be more fundamentally sound Hughes definitely had more power in his hands and could hurt you. That power makes up and equals out any difference in their striking.
     
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  5. RockyLockridge

    RockyLockridge Silver Belt

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    to add to that it's also coaches game planning and knowing how to win a fight against the type of opponent you're watching.
     
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  6. mst-dot

    mst-dot Brown Belt

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    Hughes striking was fundamentally awful stiff and slow. Basic repetitive combos with no fluidity whatsoever.

    Even a battle worn robbie lawler is light years ahead of Hughes in power speed accuracy etc and colby spent significant periods on the feet with him without any worries.

    Just looking at Hughes it's obvious he never dedicated large amounts of time to striking

    You can clearly see the cuban boxing influences in colby style

    You can clearly see the dutch kickboxong influence in martys Kickboxing

    Theyve been working hard at it for years now and it shows

    Hughes in comparison looks like a fighter from a generation before in comparison (which he is)


    Edit: sorry for the spelling. Phone is acting weird
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2020
  7. blaseblah

    blaseblah Steel Belt

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    Don't be ridiculous. Usman has outstruck most of his opponents while standing, Khabib has not.
     
  8. Bend NvR Break

    Bend NvR Break Order to Chaos. Chaos to Order.

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    I can agree.

    With that said, if prime Hughes stepped into the cage with the same Robbie that Colby did, then Robbie is getting pounded into an eventual stoppage.
     
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  9. Bend NvR Break

    Bend NvR Break Order to Chaos. Chaos to Order.

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    So has Khabib actually. Give me one opponent who has out struck him on the feet. Not MJ. Not Barboza. Not RDA. Not ragin Al. Not McGregor. Who has?
     
  10. Versace

    Versace Bezos Belt Double Yellow Card

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    Hughes was one-dimensional and sucked. Dude lost to Dennis Hallman twice lmfao

    He wouldn't even be ranked today, the bum.
     
  11. r-harper-1

    r-harper-1 Red Belt

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    Dude should’ve kicked his face in ...wtf was he waiting for
     
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  12. Bend NvR Break

    Bend NvR Break Order to Chaos. Chaos to Order.

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    McGregor lost to Joe Duffy. He must be trash.
    Masdival got inverted triangle by that Bellator wash out guy. Masdival must suck.

    Stipe lost to Struve. Take away his professional fighting credentials.
     
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  13. Versace

    Versace Bezos Belt Double Yellow Card

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    Hughes lost to the bum twice in his prime, which is the difference between him and Conor/Stipe

    Absolute trash.
     
  14. r-harper-1

    r-harper-1 Red Belt

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    Ahh no .... if Hughes stood with Robbie Lawker for as long as Colby did .... he would get put to sleep ....Hughes showed very little pop on his punches except for catching Ricardo Almedia ....Colby faster , more creative....light years better defensively....you’ve made several good points throughout this thread ..,,, I feel you’re reaching a bit with this one imo
     
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  15. r-harper-1

    r-harper-1 Red Belt

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    What was his one dimension ? He was a great wrestler and the arm bar he hit on GSP was a thing of beauty .... you’re a bit harsh
     
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  16. dabouv

    dabouv Purple Belt

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    I’d say the biggest difference is level,of athletes going into the sport. Wrestling is very old and I imagine Hughes would do about the same as current guys in wrestling at the level,he was. Now more top level,athletes view mma as an option and that is what is different. Go back further and the guys were one dimensional and Royce , who couldn’t make today’s bellator roster in his prime, was top dog.
     
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  17. r-harper-1

    r-harper-1 Red Belt

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    Pretty sure they would finish the same caliber of competition ..... they haven’t had the chance to fight Frank Trigg multiple times .....
     
  18. Tuf_guy

    Tuf_guy Gold Belt

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    I don't think those guys are the example. I think MMA has evolved, but I think it's ridiculously overstated. I think GSP is a better example, or Chuck Liddell (ultimately, most of these guys are just using a more disciplined defensive version of Chuck's gameplan to keep it standing and only train wrestling for that reason)... ROBBIE LAWLER - that dude was around forever, but managed to have like 3 or 4 title defenses (including the loss). The heavyweight division, too.
    Around the TUF 1 finale, they talked about Franklin as the new breed of MMA fighter. He could strike and grapple well - but he preferred to strike. How much better are most of these guys than him skillset-wise?
    I think the guys you described may even just be less talented/skilled versions of GSP at WW. But I do agree that the "NU BREED!" shit is often a joke. One guy said Yair would have beaten BJ at any point in BJ's career because of the evolution of the sport
    <Wenger85>
    Really? And people often say ridiculous shit like that when they talk about "the sport has evolved!"

    Biggest evolution is fewer people suck in one area, and the lower and mid-level guys are more well rounded - but the GOATS, up to this point, have already come and gone.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2020
  19. r-harper-1

    r-harper-1 Red Belt

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    Maia would best Hughes standing as well
     
  20. r-harper-1

    r-harper-1 Red Belt

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    Very doubtful
     

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