How can anyone look at '04 Hughes, '10 Shields and '19 Colby/Usman and say the sport has evolved?

[613]

Besides HW it has evolved. Just not nearly as much as people pretend

 

[Natural Order]

Hughes was good at wrestling. Usman and Colby can beat any fighter anywhere the way they mix things up. Two best welterweights ever.

17 knockouts, 18 submissions.

Good at wrestling, lol.

Get lost casual.

 

[Verace]

Don't we still have a bunch of specialized guys?
FlyW (until someone new is crowned) and BW - Olympic wrestler
FW - Volk is well rounded imo. Jack all of trades. Ace of none. Just tough AF.
LW - grappling/wrestling specialist
WW - a grappling specialist
MW - a striking specialist
LHW - the most well rounded guy in the history of mma
HW - a classic wrestle boxer that has good wrestling and good boxing but doesn't do well mixing both up

I think he still have a majority of specialists that pick up other aspects of fighting and just tailor them to compliment their specialities.

For sure, but the situation literaly flipped.

Before we had some guys that were good in all areas, like GSP, Fedor, for example and the majority of the roster who were specialized.
Now we have the whole roster with a complete mma game, and a few people specialized

And even then, at least from the ones i can remember, these are all old guys on their way out, like Maia or Oleinik

 

[Eczemaaa]

17 knockouts, 18 submissions.

Good at wrestling, lol.

Get lost casual.

That’s all he was good at he wasn’t a great striker but he could break his opponents down with wrestling. Hardly a fighter to be called well rounded certainly not on Usman or Colby’s level would lose to both of them.

 

[Volador]

I mean fighters have gotten much more well rounded, more evolved games.

Hughes better gas tank than Colby? What? Colby’s and Usman’s gas tank is insane, and their striking is better than Matt’s (although he is an all time great, and they aren’t). They way they mix their strikes and wrestling, or the way Colby pressures with volume, is more advanced than Hughes in my opinion.

Jake Shields? He has great grappling and control, but his striking is some pf the worst that a top fighter has ever had, kinda Askren-ish.

 

[Bend NvR Break]

That’s all he was good at he wasn’t a great striker but he could break his opponents down with wrestling. Hardly a fighter to be called well rounded certainly not on Usman or Colby’s level would lose to both of them.

Since when the fuck is Colby literal pitter patter punches be considered good striking? You guys are reaching. Don't mix volume for good striking.

 

[Natural Order]

That’s all he was good at he wasn’t a great striker but he could break his opponents down with wrestling. Hardly a fighter to be called well rounded certainly not on Usman or Colby’s level would lose to both of them.

Nonsense, you don't know what you're talking about. Of course his base was wrestling.........to imply Matt Hughes was a one-trick pony is beyond absurd. He was way ahead of his time in terms of well-roundedness.

Usman and Colby have finishing rates under 50%. Hughes is like 80%.

The delusion could not be stronger.

 

[Bend NvR Break]

I mean fighters have gotten much more well rounded, more evolved games.

Hughes better gas tank than Colby? What? Colby’s and Usman’s gas tank is insane, and their striking is better than Matt’s (although he is an all time great, and they aren’t). They way they mix their strikes and wrestling, or the way Colby pressures with volume, is more advanced than Hughes in my opinion.

Jake Shields? He has great grappling and control, but his striking is some pf the worst that a top fighter has ever had, kinda Askren-ish.

Hughes was a 5 round cardio machine. Never, ever lost a fight by decision. I'm willing to bet he has best cardio than both.

 

[Thepaintbucket]

It doesn't. At least not the way some people make it seem. IE champions in 2020 are vastly better than guys who fought in 2010.

However In theory competition should improve over time.

I'd say Matt Hughes could prob hold his own in the top 10 but whether he could beat Usman/Colby can and should be questioned.

 

[Eczemaaa]

Since when the fuck is Colby literal pitter patter punches be considered good striking? You guys are reaching. Don't mix volume for good striking.

He lands and his pressure is effective it wins fights and frustrates his opponents. It also sets up his wrestling very well. For MMA It’s excellent striking in my opinion. You don’t need to be a flashy kick boxer like Adesanya to be a good kick boxer to be a great striker in MMA, just look at how much success Gastlem has against him. Colby’s striking is A 1.

 

[Eczemaaa]

Nonsense, you don't know what you're talking about. Of course his base was wrestling.........to imply Matt Hughes was a one-trick pony is beyond absurd. He was way ahead of his time in terms of well-roundedness.

Usman and Colby have finishing rates under 50%. Hughes is like 80%.

The delusion could not be stronger.

He was only good at wrestling. He can’t outstrike anyone or mix things up effectively. Good thing he can hold on to guys slam guys and make guys tired because he can’t fight like Usman Colby or Hendricks.

 

[blaseblah]

Don't we still have a bunch of specialized guys?
FlyW (until someone new is crowned) and BW - Olympic wrestler
FW - Volk is well rounded imo. Jack all of trades. Ace of none. Just tough AF.
LW - grappling/wrestling specialist
WW - a grappling specialist
MW - a striking specialist
LHW - the most well rounded guy in the history of mma
HW - a classic wrestle boxer that has good wrestling and good boxing but doesn't do well mixing both up

I think he still have a majority of specialists that pick up other aspects of fighting and just tailor them to compliment their specialities.

LMAO the only specialists on that list are Khabib and Adesanya. Everyone else is well rounded.

 

[Natural Order]

He was only good at wrestling. He can’t outstrike anyone or mix things up effectively. Good thing he can hold on to guys slam guys and make guys tired because he can’t fight like Usman Colby or Hendricks.

Clearly you've seen one Usman fight.

 

[Kdup]

The blueprint is still same:

• Have an extensive background in wrestling
• Learn sub skills along the way
• Have superb cardio
• Learn enough striking to defend yourself standing while learning to how use your striking to get the fight to the mat

Everyone talks about how the game has changed and evolved. Maybe. Maybe not. I think Hughes was ahead of the curb because he was with MFS with a real team and real coaches with extensive cross training in disciplines but now that's the standard.

I think the overall talent pool has evolved where before you might have a accomplished kickboxer at 26 start to learn the ground game so they could compete in mma now you have a 16 year old who's been wrestling for 4 year now would want to learn every aspect of fighting before he even started competing.

But it seems to the guys at the top the blueprint hasn't changed.

Hell Khabib falls into the same category. Mastered grappling then learned enough striking to complement it while having great cardio.

What does Sherdog think? Has the blueprint changed?

I hate to be that guy but it’s ‘ahead of the curve’, not curb.

 

[Bend NvR Break]

He lands and his pressure is effective it wins fights and frustrates his opponents. It also sets up his wrestling very well. For MMA It’s excellent striking in my opinion. You don’t need to be a flashy kick boxer like Adesanya to be a good kick boxer to be a great striker in MMA, just look at how much success Gastlem has against him. Colby’s striking is A 1.

The exact same thing can be said about Hughes. He used his punches to set up his wrestling and did it for years. I've seen Hughes have flashes of good striking to. He rocked Almeida. And his punches hurt and do damage when they land. So by your parameters Hughes has good striking too.

I'll even grant you that Colby probably has better striking fundamentals and definitely has better kicks but to call his striking A1? Come on Sherbro. If Colby's striking is A1 what's Wonderboy Thompson's striking? A1+++?

 

[ExitLUPin]

On average fighters have evolved quite a bit. At the level of the top/high tier fighters there hasnt been much of any development in most divisions, at least the heavier ones. Flyweight, bantamweight and featherweight def got alot better at the top tho compared to the mid 2000s (most of the talent was predominantly just in Japan for those weights back then so it makes sense)

The massive shift in development occurred from the 90s to the mid 2000s. From the mid 2000s to now there hasnt been much of a shift at the top level at all

 

[Bend NvR Break]

He was only good at wrestling. He can’t outstrike anyone or mix things up effectively. Good thing he can hold on to guys slam guys and make guys tired because he can’t fight like Usman Colby or Hendricks.

Newb. He most definitely used his striking to set up his TDs and was extremely effective at it. You've never watched a Hughe's fight huh?

 

[asdf122345]

possible. we'll know when we see the next waves of fighters.

 

[Bend NvR Break]

LMAO the only specialists on that list are Khabib and Adesanya. Everyone else is well rounded.

Besides the slugfest with Colby what fight can you go to to prove Usman is a competent striking? And not the fight where the guy was so focused on not being taken down by Usman he left his chin exposed.

Most of the people on that list are specialists that seem better in other departments because people are fixed on their specialities.

And honestly idk how you can call Khabib a specialist and not Usman. If anything Khabib is more well rounded than Usman.

 

[ExitLUPin]

The skillset doesn't evolve in leaps and bounds. The techniques we see have been in place for decades, if not hundreds of years. Nobody is making new shit up that hasn't been done before.

The evolution, like all professional sports, is in the athleticism (better nutrition, training, understanding of physiology, recovery, etc.). This results in faster mechanics, quicker reflexes, faster thinking. Better conditioned athletes. That's where the evolution comes from.

This + weight cutting improvements (unless we're putting that under nutrition

GSP used to be considered a pretty big WW and in this era many LWs (Chiesa, Lee, Tony, Khabib, Poirier, Felder, Hooker etc) are just as big if not bigger than GSP ever was.

Usman himself wouldve been a MW in Andersons era most likely. He cuts some of the most weight of any fighter right now.