How are Wanderlei and Rampage overrated and Chuck is not???

Rampage was a brawler in Pride. Oyama trained him in MT & BJJ and before that he was with Tito, Ricco and Mayhem at Punishment. He didn't have a good striking camp before he teamed up with Ibarra.

That slugging, with his chin and wrestling, worked against Chuck. In their rematch, he was a technical counter boxer. He also KO'd Wanderlei with that style, but was at a disadvantage earlier in his career against MT strikers. If you remember, Bustamante and Arona were doing well against him on the feet, he used his wrestling more back then. Beat Igor on the ground.

You're right. I remember pretty clear his first fight against Liddell, he was clearly pursuing the GG, but also landed a lot on the feet against Chuck. Did so too against Wanderlei. Only their third fight he did not go for TD's by that time he knew Silva was not the same fighter any more. He said it himself before the fight.

I'm not sure he was at a disadvantage against Silva though in the first two fights though. Lets break it down. Page was bigger and stronger, had the better wrestling, the one punch KO power I'd give to him too. Silva was the better brawler, still is a brawler to this day, thing is his chin allowed him to stay quite effective with it back in the day. I think he won against Jackson because he wore him down in both fights. Dunno if Page broke physically (stamina/cardio) or mentally but this is how it looked to me. Cause one thing is Wanderlei has always showed up in top physical and mental shape for his fight
 
You're right. I remember pretty clear his first fight against Liddell, he was clearly pursuing the GG, but also landed a lot on the feet against Chuck. Did so too against Wanderlei. Only their third fight he did not go for TD's by that time he knew Silva was not the same fighter any more. He said it himself before the fight.

I'm not sure he was at a disadvantage against Silva though in the first two fights though. Lets break it down. Page was bigger and stronger, had the better wrestling, the one punch KO power I'd give to him too. Silva was the better brawler, still is a brawler to this day, thing is his chin allowed him to stay quite effective with it back in the day. I think he won against Jackson because he wore him down in both fights. Dunno if Page broke physically (stamina/cardio) or mentally but this is how it looked to me. Cause one thing is Wanderlei has always showed up in top physical and mental shape for his fight

I think the common theme in those Wanderlei fights was Quinton being a step behind on the feet, blocking with his arms (a poor man's version of what he did later, when he added counters to it and ducked his head more), while looking to get Wanderlei down. He was beat up after the stand-up from the ropes. The one thing he got going in those fights was that knockdown.

Wanderlei was too fast back then, hit and kicked too hard, plus those knees, while Quinton really only had hooks for him.
 
Wand lost to Tito and Vitor who Chuck merked.

Rampage and Wand are good, but still overrated, theyre not on the same level as guys like Hughes or Nog, and definitely not with GSP,Fedor, Anderson

Liddell lost to Jeremy Horn. Arlovski lost to some Russian lunatic. Wanderlei was nowhere near his prime in either of those fights. Hughes lost twice to Dennis Hallman.

Wandy merked Rampage twice, who merked Chuck twice.

Your post fucking sucks, bro.:rolleyes:


People just don't understand that fighters take damage, age and decline. It's a damn shame for those individuals.
 
I don't see a lot of people saying that Wand or Rampage were overrated in their prime's.

Wanderlei was better than Rampage in Pride for the most part imo, but then 1. Wand's chin started getting messed up toward the end, and then Rampage got better after he started working with Juanito Berrara and he really peaked around the time of the merger. They both peaked at slightly different times.

In terms of Chuck being overrated, I think he's underrated if anything tbh. It's easy to look back on records if you weren't there, or else forget how scared people were of Chuck until Rampage came to the UFC (I know he beat him before, but the 2nd fight was what marked the end of Chuck era). Sure, you could say he got some favourable grappler match-ups at times, but the way he'd starch people time after time was freeking savage. - And I can't think of that many strikers who could have hung with him at the time anyway. Wanderlei obviously; but then his reputation was largely founded on beating a grappler is Sakuraba repeatedly too...
 
Liddell lost to Jeremy Horn. Arlovski lost to some Russian lunatic. Wanderlei was nowhere near his prime in either of those fights. Hughes lost twice to Dennis Hallman.

Wandy merked Rampage twice, who merked Chuck twice.

Your post fucking sucks, bro.:rolleyes:


People just don't understand that fighters take damage, age and decline. It's a damn shame for those individuals.

Chuck had been fighting for less then a year and barely knew any BJJ and that was Arlovskis first fight.

Wand had been fighting for 4 years at the Tito fight and went on to beat Mezger, Hendo and saku in the following year. He had been training his striking since he was a kid when he fought Vitor but Vitor was just straight up the better fighter. You cant just dismiss losses you crybaby.

And bringing up the Dennis Hallman thing is beyond retarded.

"GSP didnt really beat Hughes, Hallman beat hughes twice so it doesnt count"
"Fedor didnt really beat Mirko, Hallman beat hughes twice so it doesnt count"
"Shogun didnt really beat Rampage, Hallman beat hughes twice so it doesnt count"

You are a very strange little man.
 
Well I don't really think of any of these guys are overrated, I think I rate them just fine they're all legends of the sport, none of them are unbeatable. I tend to agree that prime Wand>Iceman, but you lose me when you make statements like "No way in hell prime Wanderlei could have ever lost to Liddell". It's a fight, and Chuck was a beast.
 
Not to take anything from Wanderlei but yes, that standup was horrible. Rampage was winning the fight up to that point too.

He wasn't doing much on the ground if you're talking about the first fight, Wand had effectively tied up. UFC has stand ups that are A LOT faster than the one that happened in Pride, yet no one complains about them. Page lost that night to a better fighter, it wasn't like Wand just crushed Yoshida in a 1min squash fight earlier in the round either.

Don't take it the wrong way, Rampage when all said and done, is still an amazing fighter, and the first one to unify the titles. Something posters here neglect to remember.
 
You're right. I remember pretty clear his first fight against Liddell, he was clearly pursuing the GG, but also landed a lot on the feet against Chuck. Did so too against Wanderlei. Only their third fight he did not go for TD's by that time he knew Silva was not the same fighter any more. He said it himself before the fight.

It was a combination of a takedown threat and great striking defense that allowed him to outstrike Chuck in the first fight. He had Chuck looking to defend takedowns and would catch him with looping overhand rights and lefts. Then when Chuck did try and fire back Rampage showed excellent striking defense.

I'm not sure he was at a disadvantage against Silva though in the first two fights though. Lets break it down. Page was bigger and stronger, had the better wrestling, the one punch KO power I'd give to him too. Silva was the better brawler, still is a brawler to this day, thing is his chin allowed him to stay quite effective with it back in the day. I think he won against Jackson because he wore him down in both fights. Dunno if Page broke physically (stamina/cardio) or mentally but this is how it looked to me. Cause one thing is Wanderlei has always showed up in top physical and mental shape for his fight

The first fight Wanderlei wore him down I think. The second fight Wanderlei simply employed better technique than Page and landed that devestating knee. Page definitely made it a fight both times tho...he didn't get ran through like people make it seem.
 
Wand lost to Tito and Vitor who Chuck merked.

Rampage and Wand are good, but still overrated, theyre not on the same level as guys like Hughes or Nog, and definitely not with GSP,Fedor, Anderson

You do realize Rampage owned Chuck twice right?
 
It was a combination of a takedown threat and great striking defense that allowed him to outstrike Chuck in the first fight. He had Chuck looking to defend takedowns and would catch him with looping overhand rights and lefts. Then when Chuck did try and fire back Rampage showed excellent striking defense.



The first fight Wanderlei wore him down I think. The second fight Wanderlei simply employed better technique than Page and landed that devestating knee. Page definitely made it a fight both times tho...he didn't get ran through like people make it seem.

Agreed 100%. Those two fights are all time classics exactly because of the to and fro action packed in them. Both of the fights looked as if they could go either way up until Silva finished them. If they were one-sided they would not have been that good at all.

I generally do not consider one sided beatdowns a great fights anyway. This is why I did not get why people said Brown vs Silva was the fight of the year etc etc. It was waaay one-sided of a beatdown to be considered anything more than just FOTN imho.
 
Well I don't really think of any of these guys are overrated, I think I rate them just fine they're all legends of the sport, none of them are unbeatable. I tend to agree that prime Wand>Iceman, but you lose me when you make statements like "No way in hell prime Wanderlei could have ever lost to Liddell". It's a fight, and Chuck was a beast.

Fair point, that was indeed an overstatement. Of course Chuck has his chances if they have met in their prime. My points were: first, as I wrote in the OP, I really do not see how Chuck could have offered to Wanderlei anything more than what Rampage had offered. Quinton had the better striking and the better wrestling than the Iceman as it showed in both of their fights; second, this debate was already settled in 2003 as another poster noted - they all showed up in one night, to win one tournament and the best of them did.
 
You do realize Rampage owned Chuck twice right?

Yes I know.

Im saying that Wand, Chuck, Rampage, Vitor and a bunch others are all pretty equal in terms of skill but some of them match up well against others stylistically.

Its not like Fedor or Hughes who were obviously head and shoulders above everyone else in their division for a long stretch of time
 
Chuck's my personal favourite, but they're all legends. Awesome bunch of fighters.
 
Here is he reason:

Dana White
 
Wand and Lil Nog were always massively overrated...Chuck was as well (a bit).
 
Wand lost to Tito and Vitor who Chuck merked.

Rampage and Wand are good, but still overrated, theyre not on the same level as guys like Hughes or Nog, and definitely not with GSP,Fedor, Anderson

Chuck "merked" Vitor? Hmmm... last I checked he won a VERY close decision.

Also the tito that beat Wand beats chuck. Chuck fought a version of tito that had already lost his edge and confidence.
 
Also the tito that beat Wand beats chuck. Chuck fought a version of tito that had already lost his edge and confidence.

Not sure about that but also I wouldn't be so sure that Wanderlei himself doesn't beat Tito if that fight happens a bit latter when he became more tactically aware.

As far as Wand vs Chuck I personally thought that whilst Chuck did obviously deserve the decision I felt Silva looked further off his best coming off of two really bad KOs. He looked very gunshy indeed but I felt he showed the problems he could have caused Chuck, especially in the 2nd round.

Wanderlei at his best really didn't charge forward throwing crazy strikes uptil he had his opponent hurt so I don't think the idea that he would have been easy for Chuck to counter really holds. I feel Chucks defence would have been questionable with Silva exploding forward with those 1-2 combos
 

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