Law House OKs spending bill with over $5B attached for border wall, sending to Senate as shutdown looms

[Joe]

 

[VivaRevolution]

They will NOT self deport because they will leech from the system. What's so hard to understand about that? The system is set up to support those who fail.

If illegal immigrants are getting access to public welfare, which I have seen very little evidence for outside sanctuary states, and state programs, I don't see how a wall solves that problem. That seems like a problem that needs to be addressed on it's own.

 

[TheComebackKid]

The U.S. government's budget priorities are fucked. This is shameful.

Maybe they should get their own homes

 

[ScottE]

Serious question. Why didn't turtle just go nuclear? We already know the dems will as soon as they have 50 in the senate and they can't get what they want without it, so why keep trying to be civil with these clowns? By any means necessary. Just like the dems have done it and will do it. It's a shame, but fight fire with fire.

Do you understand what the "nuclear option" entails? It's not just a button he can press, it requires a vote. He doesn't have the votes.

Moreover why do you think the Democrats would utilize it in this type of situation in the future when this situation is worlds different then what occured in 2013 and 2017 when the Democrats and Republicans used it respectively?

 

[PHATV]

because he knows the dems wont actually do that, because he isnt a moron. the dems like the filibuster, as you can see today. The republicans want to be able to do it when they arent in power.

 

[PHATV]

Do you understand what the "nuclear option" entails? It's not just a button he can press, it requires a vote. He doesn't have the votes.

Moreover why do you think the Democrats would utilize it in this type of situation in the future when this situation is worlds different then what occured in 2013 and 2017 when the Democrats and Republicans used it respectively?

Why would you think the dems would not utilize it? They already showed their hand, man. That's why it was used in 2017. Precedent and all. What's good for the goose. Never lose sight of who used the nuclear option first. Dems. Because they do not care about the constitution or our system of government, only absolute power. An objective look at this issue makes that clear. Harry Reid didn't go rogue, it's how they roll.

 

[MMAViewer]

I'm getting ~71 miles of wall with the numbers you've given (assuming $400k per 30 ft section)...hell of a lot more than a single mile which you guessed. Do you understand that much of the border isn't easily traversed, so there's key areas where a wall would be very effective at stopping people from crossing?

As for the tunneling and explosives that's not clear right now, but with adequate border security it would make it more difficult to achieve penetration with either of those methods.

71 miles... if it has roads to it and is on a level concrete pad as the prototype was on.
But we know as you have pointed out that most of the terrain is not level and doesn't have easy access.
Let's assume there are 1954 miles of border. Plus or minus a few, and let's assume it would cost 5 billion for 70 miles ( a conservative figure imo) that would be around 140 billion dollars to build a wall across the border.

$140,000,000,000.00

I'll go out on a limb and say I think the US could be a little wiser with its money.

 

[ScottE]

Why would you think the dems would not utilize it? They already showed their hand, man. That's why it was used in 2017. Precedent and all. What's good for the goose. Never lose sight of who used the nuclear option first. Dems. Because they do not care about the constitution or our system of government, only absolute power. An objective look at this issue makes that clear. Harry Reid didn't go rogue, it's how they roll.

Because in 2013 when they did it was to push through appointments that historically were not met with the level of opposition being thrown at them. And even then support for it is uneven. Since then support for having done so has heavily waned as the downside of it became readily apparent in 2017.

We aren't talking about appointments that are typically not opposed but for glaring non-partisan concerns. We are talking about the attempt to pass a bill. You can clearly see why extending the nuclear option to that area is some orders in magnitude greater then either of it's two previous uses correct?

And then add the context of the situation. It being a stop gap spending bill, created due to the erratic behavior of Trump, over a position without broad popular support. You have to see how this would not be the hill they want this procedural rule to die on.

 

[sickc0d3r]

They will NOT self deport because they will leech from the system. What's so hard to understand about that? The system is set up to support those who fail.

Nah, they come here for jobs. Illegal immigration dropped to net zero during the last recession.

We also buy drugs from them, so we should legalize, too.

 

[MMAViewer]

They will NOT self deport because they will leech from the system. What's so hard to understand about that? The system is set up to support those who fail.

How does an illegal leech the system? Do you have a source? And how would a wall stop it?
Ffs man wake up! This problem is not worth shutting down the government and 5 billion dollars for a few miles of a wall. It just isn't. The border is 1950 fucking miles long man!! You have fallen for the fear tactic. Our immigration problems will not be solved with a fucking wall. It will take sophisticated planning and development of all kinds of different systems. Some we have in play some we need to improve some we need to scrap and start over. Visa issues are more glaring to me. The 911 folks got here legally. Most were still legal at the time if I remember correctly.
The solution to what I believe is your concern would be to fine heavily those who pay illegal immigrants under the table. That would stop more than any wall.
What happens now is one illegal immigrant finds a job in the US. They then tell others from wherever they came. Then the others know there is a job waiting for them. Then it is worth trying to get here illegally. If the illegal immigrant workers that are here didn't tell them they could get work in the US there would be a massive reduction in illegal crossings imo.

 

[MMAViewer]

Nah, they come here for jobs. Illegal immigration dropped to net zero during the last recession.

We also buy drugs from them, so we should legalize, too.

That isn't talked about enough. Pinch off the money or work to illegal workers and it reduces the problem to a very manageable issue.

 

[usmctanker242]

71 miles... if it has roads to it and is on a level concrete pad as the prototype was on.
But we know as you have pointed out that most of the terrain is not level and doesn't have easy access.
Let's assume there are 1954 miles of border. Plus or minus a few, and let's assume it would cost 5 billion for 70 miles ( a conservative figure imo) that would be around 140 billion dollars to build a wall across the border.

$140,000,000,000.00

I'll go out on a limb and say I think the US could be a little wiser with its money.

So it's about money then?

https://fairus.org/issue/publicatio...n-illegal-immigration-united-states-taxpayers

Total Fiscal Cost of Illegal Aliens on Taxpayers: $115,894,597,664 ---> $115.8 Billion annually. Over the course of 10 years you're looking at about $1 trillion dollars net cost for illegal immigration. I'd say $140 Billion is a hell of a deal compared to the costs of illegal immigration. Obviously upkeep, maintenance, etc.. On top of that you'd be stopping a much larger majority of criminals, terrorists, and general shitbags from crossing the border into our country.

So if it's just about money then the wall has potential to save the United States money.

 

[MMAViewer]

Because in 2013 when they did it was to push through appointments that historically were not met with the level of opposition being thrown at them. And even then support for it is uneven. Since then support for having done so has heavily waned as the downside of it became readily apparent in 2017.

We aren't talking about appointments that are typically not opposed but for glaring non-partisan concerns. We are talking about the attempt to pass a bill. You can clearly see why extending the nuclear option to that area is some orders in magnitude greater then either of it's two previous uses correct?

And then add the context of the situation. It being a stop gap spending bill, created due to the erratic behavior of Trump, over a position without broad popular support. You have to see how this would not be the hill they want this procedural rule to die on.

Great post.
Appointments arent the same as a bill and the dems are kicking themselves for doing that. No way in hell either party touches the "nuclear option" for decades imo. That rule is secure for awhile.

 

[ShadowRun]

So let me ask you this. Are you against mexicans, or illegal immigration?

I ask because half of illegal immigrants came here legally.

I will say it over, and over again in these threads.

E-verify is how you stop Illegal immigration

You want 20 million illegal immigrants to self deport?

Hold Trump's feet to the fire, and demand a real solution, which is E-verify.

You think E-verify would work ? Illegals use other people’s social security numbers easily and it’s easy to still identities anyways .

 

[VivaRevolution]

You think E-verify would work ? Illegals use other people’s social security numbers easily and it’s easy to still identities anyways .

RFID chips in legal worker cards.

Encryption is not something you can counterfeit.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Keyboards that can read a RFID chips are 20 bucks.

It wouldn't be too great a burden on a employer to have a 20$ keyboard, and a computer, to verify the encryption on the RFID chips.

 

[MMAViewer]

So it's about money then?

https://fairus.org/issue/publicatio...n-illegal-immigration-united-states-taxpayers

Total Fiscal Cost of Illegal Aliens on Taxpayers: $115,894,597,664 ---> $115.8 Billion annually. Over the course of 10 years you're looking at about $1 trillion dollars net cost for illegal immigration. I'd say $140 Billion is a hell of a deal compared to the costs of illegal immigration. Obviously upkeep, maintenance, etc.. On top of that you'd be stopping a much larger majority of criminals, terrorists, and general shitbags from crossing the border into our country.

So if it's just about money then the wall has potential to save the United States money.

No no no.
I'm saying that that 140 billion wall wouldn't solve the problem. It might solve a very small part of the 115.8 billion dollar (that is an arguable figure to say the least).
Many of the costs in your source come from people that at one time came here legally so it isn't a border crossing issue at all. A wall would have net zero effect on those costs.

 

[ShadowRun]

RFID chips in legal worker cards.

Encryption is not something you can counterfeit.

Yes it is and RFID has been cracked too. the average person can’t though. But who maintains the cards and the cost of the cards? Does it work like a drivers license where everyone has to have one ?
One RFID hack I read awhile back
https://blog.f-secure.com/researchers-find-way-to-generate-master-keys-to-hotels/

 

[MMAViewer]

RFID chips in legal worker cards.

Encryption is not something you can counterfeit.

It is not as easy to just use someone else's ss # as people think. Part of e verify is cross checking and checking duplicate workers. Although I agree with you a 20 dollar reader is easy enough @ShadowRun is stretching with his claim.
Besides I'd rather spen 5 billion in e verify upgrades and prosecuting those who pay illegally under the table. Those who pay under the table are fucking the IRS and the taxpayers.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Yes it is and RFID has been cracked too. the average person can’t though. But who maintains the cards and the cost of the cards? Does it work like a drivers license where everyone has to have one ?
One RFID hack I read awhile back
https://blog.f-secure.com/researchers-find-way-to-generate-master-keys-to-hotels/

Sure. Your debit card isn't completely safe, but it is safe enough that the vast majority still use them.

The best part about RFID is that even if you steal the info, you have only stolen the info for one card. The legal consequence for an employer would end at using a counterfeit card to verify employment. That isn't their responsibility. Their job is to simply put the card in the keyboard, access a website that reads and verifies verified the encrypted key.

As far as cost. I bet it costs less then a wall, or the cost of illegals attending schools, and using emergency medical services.