Hospital can take 11-month-old girl off life support despite her family's wishes

[Sunnyvale TP]

As someone who works in healthcare, mostly the ICU, I watch extensive suffering caused in end stage situations by family members who are afraid to say goodbye and let go. It is always hard, but many people are kept alive when there is no hope and they are put through painful procedures to prolong the inevitable by the choices of family members. I watch it every shift I work. There are no easy answers or choices, especially with the young patients, but watching people suffer mostly falls on the healthcare workers who watch it for the whole shift. Families are not usually there for the majority of it, so they stay somewhat removed from most of the situation.

 

[TUFNewb]

There are a lot of examples of people with no chance making it.

There are many more of family members letting loved ones suffer needlessly and them coming to deeply regret it, with it haunting them for the rest of their lives.

 

[LMP]

I held my first son as he slowly died. He had a condition that was causing his lungs to fill up with fluids. There was nothing the doctors could do to save him. No matter how much they pumped up out of his lungs, they would fill back up.

My wife was totally against allowing him to pass. There was nothing to be done about it, he was suffering. Can you imagine what it would feel like to constantly feel like you were drowning and having tubes forced down your throat to pump out your lungs? There was no way I could sit by and allow him to suffer, hoping that some god would magically heal him. I made the decision and he died in my arms slowly. He slept calmly as he passed.

This is the right decision. Parents can be idiots in these situations. We can't sit by and allow children like this to suffer just because it hurts the parents. It hurts to allow them to pass, but it is for the best of the child.

 

[SaiWa]

As someone who works in healthcare, mostly the ICU, I watch extensive suffering caused in end stage situations by family members who are afraid to say goodbye and let go. It is always hard, but many people are kept alive when there is no hope and they are put through painful procedures to prolong the inevitable by the choices of family members. I watch it every shift I work. There are no easy answers or choices, especially with the young patients, but watching people suffer mostly falls on the healthcare workers who watch it for the whole shift. Families are not usually there for the majority of it, so they stay somewhat removed from most of the situation.

This.

I couldn't imagine having to take care of a young child day in and day out knowing he/she is suffering the entire time without any chance of recovering. If there was even a chance for some recovery or some experimental drug that may cure this kid then i would have suggested the family take that risk and hope for the best.

i am siding with the hospital on this one. this isn't a question about money. this is a question that the medical staff believe they cannot do anymore and they are relieving this pain through constant dosage of painkillers... this isn't an evaluation to be taken lightly as 20 other hospitals also reviewed the medical assessment and agree with Cook Hospital.

No one wins this battle. It is terribly heartbreaking to read it...

 

[Striderxdj]

My ex wife worked as a pediatric nurse and after the stories I heard, I have almost 0 sympathy for parents like this.

There are kids in your local hospital kept "alive" into their teens having lived in agony for years that literally beg their parents to let them die, but their parents are selfish assholes who cant let go and ignore their suffering.

 

[Swing]

This feels reductive, but I can't see a decent argument for allowing care that with reasonable certainty isn't to the patient's benefit.

 

[method115]

Jesus what a terrible story...

can't imagine what the parents must be feeling. All I know is, if that was my child I wouldn't be thinking objectively.

I would pull some John Q shit and keep my daughter alive.

I would personally be fine with life support being removed but I don't blame anyone for whatever their feelings are regarding a situation like this.

 

[Based and White Pilled]

I'll bet you ten of my dollars to one of yours here. Seriously, this child will suffer to death.

When did I say something that implied that I don't think this child dying is the most likely outcome?

There are many more of family members letting loved ones suffer needlessly and them coming to deeply regret it, with it haunting them for the rest of their lives.

Certainly people in situations like that dying is the most likely outcome. That's why people call it "beating the odds" or "a miracle" when they survive. I didn't say the kid would live. I'm only saying that there are a lot of examples of people who did survive when they weren't supposed to be able to, so I can understand if someone holds out hope when they logically shouldn't.

All of the articles I see about regretting decisions made for people who die on life support indicate that family members basically feel guilty no matter what they do.

 

[ocean size]

When did I say something that implied that I don't think this child dying is the most likely outcome?

Certainly people in situations like that dying is the most likely outcome. That's why people call it "beating the odds" or "a miracle" when they survive. I didn't say the kid would live. I'm only saying that there are a lot of examples of people who did survive when they weren't supposed to be able to, so I can understand if someone holds out hope when they logically shouldn't.

All of the articles I see about regretting decisions made for people who die on life support indicate that family members basically feel guilty no matter what they do.

Bringing up people sometimes surviving improbable conditions as if relevant to this case it appears you are suggesting the odds of survival weren't negligible. The odds are not just low here, but negligible she will survive. (Assuming the story is reported correctly)

Yes people say 'the doctors said I have no chance to survive but somehow the treatment worked!' but typically that is the people's underatanding of low odds. the difference between low odds and negligible odds is significant but psychological research shows it is one humans have a difficult time understanding intuitively without statistical training, and even then...

If there are similar cases with infants with severe heart defects, lung disease and sepsis pulling through I'd be happy to hear them and stand corrected, but even then what odds are good enough to make the child suffer on?

Pretending there's any real chance of a good outcome here instead of more prolonged agony prior to death is what will make parents in situations like this feel guilty.

 

[VivaRevolution]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/02/us/texas-infant-life-support-tinslee-lewis/index.html


A judge has decided that a Texas children's hospital can remove an 11-month-old with a rare heart defect off life support despite her family's wishes.

For several months, the family of Tinslee Lewis has been fighting to continue her treatment at the Cook Children's Medical Center in Fort Worth, Texas after the facility planned to end care.
Tinslee was born with a rare heart defect called Ebstein's anomaly and suffers from chronic lung disease and severe chronic pulmonary hypertension. The hospital planned to remove her from life-support after her physicians said she is suffering and her condition is irreversible, Cook Children's Health Care System spokeswoman Winifred King had said in a statement.
.....

"I am heartbroken over today's decision because the judge basically said Tinslee's life is NOT worth living. I feel frustrated because anyone in that courtroom would want more time just like I do if Tinslee were their baby. I hope that we can keep fighting through an appeal to protect Tinslee. She deserves the right to live. Please keep praying for Tinslee and thank you for supporting us during this difficult time."
.....

"Tinslee is suffering and she is in pain every single day. We know that this is very difficult for this family who had high hopes that she would get better. But the truth is that she is not going to get better," King told reporters on Thursday.
The baby girl consistently takes painkillers and sedatives, and she is paralyzed at all times. The hospital had said doctors had to sedate and paralyze the infant to keep her from pulling at the lines connected to her ventilator.
She is suffering from severe sepsis and appears that she's in pain when nurses change her diapers and turn her over to avoid bed sores, King said.
"All the things we have to do to keep her alive and keep her well is causing her pain and causing her suffering and we don't want to do that any longer. We want to ease her pain. We believe that we can do that if we allow her to naturally and peacefully transition," King said.





my question to present would be: who would you prefer our laws to side with in cases like this?


parents, and allowing them to continue their child 's needless suffering?


hospitals, and ultimately the government? at some point enough is enough, but can we get the line correctly?







I know there's right to life, and other things that will be brought up. I have no immediate answer of my own, so I'm looking for thoughts........

I think the key here for everyone to understand, is that anyone that claims we don't have death panels, and rationed care under our current system, is ignorant, or a liar.

 

[Bloody Pulp]

I held my first son as he slowly died. He had a condition that was causing his lungs to fill up with fluids. There was nothing the doctors could do to save him. No matter how much they pumped up out of his lungs, they would fill back up.

My wife was totally against allowing him to pass. There was nothing to be done about it, he was suffering. Can you imagine what it would feel like to constantly feel like you were drowning and having tubes forced down your throat to pump out your lungs? There was no way I could sit by and allow him to suffer, hoping that some god would magically heal him. I made the decision and he died in my arms slowly. He slept calmly as he passed.

This is the right decision. Parents can be idiots in these situations. We can't sit by and allow children like this to suffer just because it hurts the parents. It hurts to allow them to pass, but it is for the best of the child.

Spoiler

 

[Fawlty]

A shame the parents can't come to terms with reality, and 100% understandable that they're fighting this.

 

[ocean size]

A shame the parents can't come to terms with reality, and 100% understandable that they're fighting this.

That's a compassionate take. I'm sure I can't really judge until I'm in the same situation but I have trouble finding it close to 100% understandable. I understand holding on to hope but here there's a tradeoff with their child's agony.

 

[Lubaolong]

The morally safer route in most cases like this is to forgo life-sustaining interventions when their likelihood to effectuate a beneficial outcome is small relative to the odds of causing more harm/suffering.

 

[AndroidRage]

Anyone remember when retards would point to a case similar to this in the UK and use it as an exam0le of Universal Healthcare being reprehensible and our system being better? So what do you dumb fucks have to say now?

 

[AznTrojan]

On the other side, don't hospitals and doctors have some rights to decision making?

No doctor wants to perform surgery because the child will highly likely die during, and then they are potentially liable. This isn't stated anywhere, I'm making this assumption for the sake of discussion. They should have that right. Or no?

So now all the rest of the hospital staff can do is the simply prolong her death sentence. In the form of harmful treatments that are only designed to hold out for a cure, which it is now known is never coming.

So, does each individual staff member, and the staff as a whole never have a right to say I want to stop harming this individual. To decide if they want to be involved?

So the family has the right to decide if they want to keep their child living, but does that mean they have the right make others participate in that?

you can't make a doctor do a procedure against their will..

 

[Fatality]

I'm not a parent so I don't pretend to understand this family's suffering but from an outsider's perspective I find it repugnant they are choosing to prolong their child's suffering when there is no hope of recovery. The infant has already endured months of pain and anguish, if the parents can't make the humane decision then the doctors should in my opinion.

 

[Oeshon]

They have to eventually run out of money.

Could make for an interesting movie.

Bruce Willis with a terminally ill daughter in hospital and they are gonna shut off the machine if he doesn't come up with the money. He turns to a life of crime and bank robberies to keep the cash flowin

 

[Higus]

No, it doesn't. It is not an abuse to try and save a life.

I would strongly suggest you (or really anyone else reading this) take some time out of your year and put Being Mortal by Atul Gawande on your reading list.

 

[weed]

this breaks my heart.

one of the things that really, truly & devastatingly troubles me in this life is that children are born with into suffering - unhealthy & with life threatening/permanent ailments.

shit ruins me.