So i have a question for fellow BJJ sherdoggers. Tonight, during a scramble for some dudes back i realized that unless it's a slow movement to the back and not a scramble i almost always the the RNC sunk in or around the neck before i put my hooks in (I only do this during the scramble for someones back.) The way i see it i get them when they aren't really expecting it because i don't have hooks in so when it gets sunk, they'll roll over and i'll wrap around them if they haven't tapped yet. Is it wrong of me to do this? and am i making a bad habit?
The reason you should get your hooks in first is to secure the position, obviously. But guys like Marcelo sometimes finish the RNC with only 1 hook, and in some cases no hooks at all. But I doubt you are a Marcelo my friend.
You have to take what you can get, but losing a good position can be costly, and also the choke is much easier to defend when the hooks are absent. take it, but look to put your hooks in as you try and finish.
Yes i know that haha, and i almost always do if it's a slow work to someones back, however if it's like a failed submission attempt/scramble to take his back i like to jump in with the choke asap and then hooks follow. Rather than hooks first then choke, simply because i seem to get F'd in the A when i try and submit after i put my hooks in because they know it's coming.... i know what you mean.
you will more than likely lose the back though if you go straight for it without hooks, if the guy is half decent at defending. Secure the back, then go for the choke, you just got to learn how to set up the choke if the guy has good defense.
Okay thanks for the advice. Incase i didn't make it clear, it's not like my legs are just dead, dangling hunks of meat while i try the choke. They are going for the hooks but i just don't make it as big of a priority... if that makes any sense.
i would concentrate on going for the harness grip in no-gi or double lapel control or harness (over/under) in the gi, before the choke, that will lock you onto the persons back so you can work for the hooks, once you get the hooks, then sink the choke
Yes it is perfectly acceptable to fish for the choke before/while your looking to get the hooks. Usually you can get one hook while the second is defended --> attack the neck and the defense of the hook goes away. If you can choke the guy without or with just one of the hooks good.
There's no problem with choking while looking for hooks. Before hooks are in, all they're thinking is "defend the hooks, defend the hooks". Then you choke instead. Once the hooks are in, then they think "defend the choke" so it's actually very high percentage to look for the choke early, and marcelo teaches it this way.
My instructor ALWAYS said, "the choke can come at any time and if they defend the hooks they are more open for the choke, if they are defending the choke they are more open for the hooks".
I find it easier to get my hooks in while I have the choke - during a scramble. The reason why is because they are defending the choke or at least should be. Marcelo sometimes will get the choke set first and not worry to much about the hooks. The most important part of controlling someone's back is having one arm over a shoulder and the other arm under an armpit. Lock you hands together at the chest and keep you chest close to his back. This does more for control then the hooks.
hooks are preferred. If you lose the choke with no hooks - your going to lose position, and probably in a bad way. If you lose the chokes with your hooks in, you lost the choke.. but you still have the back to try again. Its simply a better option, in most cases. If your getting the rnc without hooks, do what works.
I usually get the seatbelt grip and work for the hooks, usually in trying to defend the grip they open space to get the hooks in, or the choke. I do prefer to get position over submission
I've been using a body triangle lately with alot of success, I find it easy to transition into a tight body triangle if I can get a single hook in first however, and control the upper body with an under over, or double under grip. Once the body triangle in cinched in though, they're not going anywhere, period. This gives you alot of time to setup your attacks, but it does hinder the transition to armbar (for me anyways) and it is quite tiring. Also, this isn't for all body types, but I personally find it a nice way to setup my back mount attacks.
I think if you CAN get the RNC before the hooks take it! Most people assume you will go for the hooks first you are right, but if he fights out of the RNC he will most likely roll into your guard. I like that style though...always go for the sub! FUCK "position before submission!" lol Actually there is a middle ground, go for the sub and TRY not to lose position!
The reason it works is because sometimes guys are concentrating on stopping you from getting hooks and not defending the neck, like of the armdrag like Marcelo shows.
I like working without my hooks in a lot. I normally stay to there side, kneeling orstanding on their near leg to help prevent a roll or with one hook in. A lot of it come from the fact that I don't have a lot of flexibilty in my hips and don't feel that secure on bigger guys. But the other side of it is that I think it opens up more options and I can always put my hooks in when I go for something that requires them. hooks in is the traditional game though and it has to be learned.
