Hook problem

I feel like the notion of "sling shotting" and showing pics of Liddell is just implying, to me at least, that you're trying to throw a hay-maker instead of a hook. Dragging your arm back behind your body, especially with a wide arm, is telegraphic because that's how I tried to throw my hooks when I first started and everyone said they could see it coming from a mile away. Remember MMA is different than boxing and most people in MMA are throwing to ko the other person at the first opportunity they get.
 
Had to post this gif

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no idea how that shot KO'ed the guy... and the guy just went down like paul williams. looks like pure arm.
 
Would you say Rampage slingshot this punch at all?

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People may conceptualize certain words/phrases differently.

Here, Rampage generates a good amount of power from that chest muscle elasticity 'effect'... barely any rotating motion in his body/torso. He loaded up the energy from his chest/elasticity and completes the punch with "swing" the rest of the way (muscle contraction). In the video, you can see Rampage lift his leg of the ground for just an instant for counterweight as he's delivering the punch.

Again, it is completely impossible to judge the amount of power 'page generates because at the moment of impact CHUCKS FEET ARE OFF THE GROUND, HIS CHIN IS IN THE AIR, HIS LEGS ARE STRAIGHT, HIS BODY IS SQUARE AND HE BARELY SEES THE PUNCH COMING, IF HE SEES IT AT ALL. A sneeze would have knocked him on his ass.

And as much as people love to talk about how his chin faded, most of his late knockouts happened when he was in literally the worst possible situation to be hit.

You're basically saying that the power of a hook comes from torso twist (which we all know really comes from the legs, no worries) and that some can be generated by a stretch reflex in the shoulder (CONCEPTUALLY!!!). Others are saying that the shoulder plays a much smaller role, and it must be back in position before landing to ensure both shoulder health and maximum stability (power).
 
Had to post this gif

Steve_Garcia_Jr.___vs.___Cody_Walker.gif


no idea how that shot KO'ed the guy... and the guy just went down like paul williams. looks like pure arm.

He gets a little momentum going while swinging the leg down (like a superman punch) but more important as fightingrabbit explains the guy getting knocked out has an awful stance to absorb damage, his chin straight in the air and he never even almost sees the shot coming.
 
I feel like the notion of "sling shotting" and showing pics of Liddell is just implying, to me at least, that you're trying to throw a hay-maker instead of a hook. Dragging your arm back behind your body, especially with a wide arm, is telegraphic because that's how I tried to throw my hooks when I first started and everyone said they could see it coming from a mile away. Remember MMA is different than boxing and most people in MMA are throwing to ko the other person at the first opportunity they get.

I feel like the notion of "keeping shoulder in socket" is implying that you're muscling your fist/arm forward of your shoulders throughout the punch.

Chest muscle tautness, and slingshotting the punch (right at the end)... is this:

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Repost:
Here's the mental process during the punch sequence (I just throw a cross):
  • Initiate torque...
  • Attain and maintain chest muscle tautness... (w/arm & fist cocked in "hook" position, along for the ride)
  • Torque...
  • Torque...
  • Torque...
  • Torque...
  • Approaching target...
  • Release chest muscle elasticity effect to propel punch...
  • Halt torque...
  • Swing... (contract chest muscle)
  • Swi........ (contrac...............)
  • Impact target...

Note: of course this all happens in an instant, and its more fluid that it may sound (momentum/followthrough)
 
Dude, if you want to test it hit the bag as hard as you can with your shoulder out of the socket and land with your first behind your shoulder.
 
Dude, if you want to test it hit the bag as hard as you can with your shoulder out of the socket and land with your first behind your shoulder.

I'm very well aware of how keeping shoulder in the socket prevents injuries and keep the structural strength of the punch to maximize its power (if you are replying to me). I don't think it had to do with anything with muscling the arm/fist forward the shoulder like he feels.

I might just misunderstood his post though.
 
[*]Attain and maintain chest muscle tautness... (w/arm & fist cocked in "hook" position, along for the ride)

I'm gonna repeat this for you again.
The arm is not "along for the ride". The arm is being drawn back and forward smoothly. The body rotates much more quickly than the extended arm, so the shoulder begins to come out front, and the arm appears to be getting "dragged" along. There is not a chest "taughtness", the chest and shoulder are actually contracting as fast as they can to swing the arm out front.

Watch the serve:


See how the hand is gaining ground, and the shoulder starts slightly after the hand and just wins the race effortlessly. He's not dragging the arm, the arm is accelerating full out, the arm is just much slower and weaker than the legs/hips/torso, especially when you consider the shoulders are much closer to the center of rotation than the extended hand.

Just chill. Sit back for a while, consider everything that's been said here, do so supplementary reading and let this thread go.
 
Dude, if you want to test it hit the bag as hard as you can with your shoulder out of the socket and land with your first behind your shoulder.

We agree. Ideally, you DON'T want to impact the target with your chest taut/fist behind your shoulder.

How I *THINK OF IT* is that my fist & arm are almost 'along for the ride' as my body is torquing... as you approach the target (this is a matter of feel and timing), you 'release the slingshot', meaning that energy from that elasticity effect from your chest-muscle... THEN you 'swing' for that last bit before impact.


Captain Dammitt quotes:
- locking your arm in place
- find the right moment to contract your chest muscles
- contraction of the chest at the end

You say "lock your arm in place"... I say "arm is along for the ride" (w/chest muscle taut)

You say "contract your chest muscles at the end"... for me that's the "slingshoting AND swinging"
 
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I'm gonna repeat this for you again.
The arm is not "along for the ride". The arm is being drawn back and forward smoothly. The body rotates much more quickly than the extended arm, so the shoulder begins to come out front, and the arm appears to be getting "dragged" along. There is not a chest "taughtness", the chest and shoulder are actually contracting as fast as they can to swing the arm out front.

....

In case you missed this part, I repeat...

Note: of course this all happens in an instant, and its more fluid that it may sound (momentum/followthrough)


Conceptualizing the arm position in terms of being "along for the ride" helps me from (1) wanting to rear back, and (2) from winging.

But if a guy is dwelling on "KEEPING shoulder in socket" and how far is too much or "perfect", etc... it sounds like he's stiff and he's trying to PUSH his punch forward too much, or from too early in the sequence.

It's okay to have your elbow behind your shoulders, but unleash the punch before the impact...

See how as Canelo begins the torque (note shoulders), his fist remains fairly stationary for an moment or two... he's gaining that tautness in the chest. He's not wasting muscle strength trying to KEEP the fist forward the whole way through. He OPENS HIS CHEST as he torques, bringing the 'hook' along with him, THEN contracting the chest at the right moment near the end of the punch (see Captainb_Dammitt)... so it's at the impact where you'd like to have your fist forward of your shoulders, NOT THROUGHOUT the punch.

OtPrjQ.gif
 
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I'll roll with it, as long as you understand the stretching of the chest is fairly inconsequential.
 
Why am i getting the feeling that CoffeeAndBear is just regurgitating stuffs all over and over again just so that no one will argue with him?
 
Recognizing and reacting to opponents being in bad positions is part of what makes you good fighter.

And when it comes down to it, in a fight... effectiveness > proper technique.


No opponent, just a demonstration of Chuck's "power hook"...

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(pic of a different punch than above)

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Hook = Chest (and torque)


That's horrible technique.
 
^You know who am i thinking off with that reply? KarateStylist.
And this is the first time i see someone mention about "slingshot" a hook. A hook is throw, not slingslot. You only feel like you slingshot it when you are trying to get power inefficiently with your mechanics, to the point where it affect balance/posture and you almost fall over, which is basically what Chuck taught and Diaz did, even Rampage look like he's about to fall over to Chuck with the rear foot over the air too. Canelo doesn't do that. His mechanics is sound to the point where he's able to maximize his lead hook without affecting his posture and balance. He looked effortlessly too, unlike other examples. There's differences.

This.
 
Instead of starting a new thread I decided to bump an older thread of mine about the hook.... 2 words DANNY GARCIA.....he always throws that monster hook but after last night I'm questioning what is he doing?! His head literally turns away and down but still knocks everyone out and doesn't get countered. Can someone explain this
 
He's good at guessing. Nonito Donaire also turns away and closes his eyes, when questioned on it he said he sees like Neo from The Matrix, so he doesn't need to look.
 
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