Hook problem

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by shs101, Jun 4, 2014.

  1. shs101

    shs101 Blue Belt

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    Hey guys I'm having trouble with my hook after snooping around some threads I've seen numerous times the importance of keeping your shoulders in the sockets when punching and all my other punches are fine except the hook. I feel like my shoulder comes forward and it's almost a slapping punch.

    Anyone have any drills or tips to correct this? Also how far is too much out of the socket or perfect? I might be over thinking my problem, ie not 100% sure about how much is to much out of the socket.
     
  2. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    It depends on what the actual problem is. Without a visual it's tough to tell. For instance, if someone is sway-backed, it will take a LONG time to correct that, just so the hook can be thrown correctly.
     
  3. shs101

    shs101 Blue Belt

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    I figured it'd be hard with out some type of visual. I will try and get one up asap. What do you mean by sway-backed?
     
  4. a guy

    a guy Black Belt

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    [​IMG]

    Also known as lordosis, also known as a fucking nightmare. It's a postural problem that affects a lot of people and is made worse by things like sitting, wearing overly padded shoes, not working your posterior chain and pretty much just being an average person in modern society.
     
  5. Captain_Dammitt

    Captain_Dammitt Brown Belt

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    My posture is pretty rough so out of curiousty, what is the mechanical affect of bad posture with hooks and what could someone do to fix it?
     
  6. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Well, with the sway-backed person as an example...they have a physical inability to keep their chest up. When the chest is 'down' or sunken in like you see in the photo, the muscles become short and tight. When they're flexed for a hook, they pull inward on the shoulder. What you end up with is a hook where the chin is lifted away from the chest. It can be powerful, but it puts pressure in two bad places: 1) the weak shoulder joint itself, and 2) the neck.

    If the guy is countered during the hook, all the force will go into the neck. Like this guy on the right:

    [​IMG]

    Preferable hook position with good posture keeps the chin/chest connection. So the force of a counter-punch goes down the posterior chain (and theoretically into the floor). This also makes it easier to preserve the elbow-torso connection as long as possible before the point of impact, which makes the punch more powerful. Idealistically:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Notice Alvarez's chest can stay upright, back straight, shoulder in the socket.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2014
  7. Captain_Dammitt

    Captain_Dammitt Brown Belt

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    Thanks for that thorough break down Sir Sinister. I'll keep my posture in mind when training.
     
  8. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Don't keep it in mind, figure out how to fix it. Or pay someone to.

    Your older and less injury-ridden self will thank you.
     
  9. Captain_Dammitt

    Captain_Dammitt Brown Belt

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    Roger that!
     
  10. shs101

    shs101 Blue Belt

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    Hell of a post. Thank you. I think the reason this is happening is because I'm worried if I turn fully for my hook I will lose sight of them/not face them correctly for that split second. It seems alvarez the tremendous fighter he is maintains full eye contact forward while throwing a proper hook.


    So how could I start to incorporate this right into my training?
     
  11. Captain_Dammitt

    Captain_Dammitt Brown Belt

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    Find the right moment to contract your chest muscles.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2014
  12. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    You don't rotate your head when you throw a hook, you rotate your torso and hips.
     
  13. CoffeeAndBeer

    CoffeeAndBeer OG from 1993

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    You may not be torquing your upper body enough.

    I felt the same way about my hook, no real power, kind of reaching too much with it.

    I never really knew how to throw a hook (especially for power) until I figured out that you don't really "throw" a hook as much as you slingshot a hook. The twist of your torso is what drives the punch... your arm and fist are almost just along for the ride--at least that's how I think of it in your minds eye.

    Watch this vid see if it helps...

    [YT]7BiaQa18EFw[/YT]
     
  14. CoffeeAndBeer

    CoffeeAndBeer OG from 1993

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    Also...

    Straight from Bas Rutten... don't focus on pivoting your lead foot when you throw the hook.
     
  15. Discipulus

    Discipulus Black Belt

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    I don't agree with either of these. Relying on that elastic stretch reflex to throw the hook is a recipe for shoulder injury. There's a bit of drag on the hook to get it going sometimes, but you should never whip the hook into the target to the point where your shoulder is well ahead of your fist.

    As for Bas, he doesn't know as much about scientific striking as he thinks he does. Don't get me wrong, he knows a lot of good shit, but I wouldn't go to a Kyokushin guy first if I wanted to learn about left hooks.

    To put his advice in perspective: Bas also used to say that the jab is useless in MMA.
     
  16. szJack

    szJack Yellow Belt

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    EVERYONE has lordosis. You can have either hyperlordosis or hypolordosis as far as problems go:)
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2014
  17. a guy

    a guy Black Belt

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    Yes, you are correct. Lordosis is natural, hyperlordosis is a problem.
     
  18. shs101

    shs101 Blue Belt

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    Good thing you noted that because after saying it and I throwing my hook I realized I turn my head a little and that could be a problem.
     
  19. CoffeeAndBeer

    CoffeeAndBeer OG from 1993

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    It's the overall concept that helped me. The punch is more dependent on the chest and torque in the core, than the arm and shoulder, which may be the problem. Torque more, swing less.

    It helped me think about it differently. I don't entirely agree with what Bas said/says, but I do agree that too much focus is put on the pivot. The pivot comes naturally, in a sense. The torque is what's important, and yeah, your body may make you pivot as a result (or even shift your feet position) but that's more like what happens in your follow through (for me anyway).


    This pic is great. Shows how Canelo's chest/shoulders are almost flat, perpendicular to his target... lots of torque (lots of power transferring from the chest to 'the hook')

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2014
  20. CoffeeAndBeer

    CoffeeAndBeer OG from 1993

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    Also, the "jab" that Nick dropped Lawler with... was an extended hook, if you will. Idk if technique-wise it's the best looking hook, but it helps demonstrate the concept of where the power comes from and how it's transfered.

    [​IMG]


    ...

    [​IMG]
     

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