History repeats: Ngannou is also beating mostly high mileage fighters

[Choco]

I don't think Fedor, Nog, Crocop, Bartnett, etc. would be LHW's.

I said that there were some bonafide good big guys. Minotauro, Mir ,Andrei, Sergei, Barnet... but also many smaller guys, galore.

-Fedor was always around 230 lbs. and didn't like cutting weight.

Product of an era, and its mentality, in an sport born as OW. Fedor has fought, still in his streak, as light as 225. Guys the size of Fedor would be consider oddities as HW today. Igor would be impossible.

-Crocop was ripped at 220 lbs. He got bigger afterwards.

Crocop weighted 220.9 lbs in his fight with Wandy in the 2006 OGP (Second last PRIDE fight), in great shape but by no means shredded. Easy LHW by today's standarts.

I mean DC moved to LHW and then returned to HW and took the belt.

So black Fedor, with is 2010's mentality did what Original Fedor could've done could him be bothered.

Back in the day, Gus, Bones etc would be "incentivized" especially in Japan, to fight as HW, at least most of the time, for money and glory.

In modern times the incentives scheme pushes fighters to kill themselves to cut as much as they can, get belts in the smaller weight classes, and if they can get away with that, snipe at a heavy weight class with an out of prime or fluke champion, and call themselves that moronic term "champ, champ".

 

[Islam Imamate]

It’s undeniable that Ngannou is beating wash ups and one dimensional jobbers.


Well done TS

I wouldn't say one dimensional since a lot of these guys were dynamic and well rounded in their younger years but yeah they all have some mileage on them.

I chuckled at this part of the OP

Cain: 13 years active, 16 fights,
Ngannou: 6 years active, 15 fights

Cain's career covers a time span over twice as long as Nganou's but he only has one more fight, man he really got screwed by injuries and inactivity.

I remember when he fought Ngannou he was like a 2:1 favorite, couldn't believe that. Same against Werdum. Cain was an amazing fighter but I honestly think he was a bit overrated, people just wanted the 2nd coming of Fedor and they thought he was it but in the end I don't think he met the crazy expectations people had of him despite the success he did have.

 

[Islam Imamate]

But these veterans are still at the top of the HW division and manage to beat some younger guys.
And if that's been the case for two generations of champs now - maybe that's an indication it's not just some temporary fluke.
Maybe age and mileage doesn't necessarily always mean you're terrible.
Would be one thing if we saw these old veterans destroyed every time they faced a younger opponent. But as far as I recall that hasn't consecutively been the case.

Maybe veterans aren't that bad. And/Or that the HW talent pool has just been weak for a long time now.
Either way, I'm fine with them "beating the best guys on the roster" even if the roster is weak.
As long as you can't directly point to younger and better fighters they missed out on - not sure what could've been done differently other than rebuilding the roster.

I think the talent pool is and has been weak for some time now. The last time we had a strong HW division was back in the early 2010s when we had guys JDS, Cain, Carwin, DC, Barnett, Werdum, Overeem, and Browne. A solid mix of veterans and up and comers and guys in between.

I think part of the problem is what someone else mentioned, that the elite HWs of yesteryear would be LHWs today. The same effect has happened at LHW too where the guys who would've fought there in the mid 2000s now cut to MW. As LHW and HW have become wastelands I actually think MW became better though I think it peaked shortly after Strikeforce was folded into the UFC. Still far better than LHW and HW though.

 

[ThunderStruck]

Another insecure, off topic post.

Says the one who feels the need to create a fedor-praise/damage-control thread after every single high-profile UFC HW fight.

 

[Claude]

I said that there were some bonafide good big guys. Minotauro, Mir ,Andrei, Sergei, Barnet... but also many smaller guys, galore.

Product of an era, and its mentality, in an sport born as OW. Fedor has fought, still in his streak, as light as 225. Guys the size of Fedor would be consider oddities as HW today. Igor would be impossible.

Crocop weighted 220.9 lbs in his fight with Wandy in the 2006 OGP (Second last PRIDE fight), in great shape but by no means shredded. Easy LHW by today's standarts.

So black Fedor, with is 2010's mentality did what Original Fedor could've done could him be bothered.

Back in the day, Gus, Bones etc would be "incentivized" especially in Japan, to fight as HW, at least most of the time, for money and glory.

In modern times the inceintives scheme pushes fighters to kill themselves to cut as much as they can, get belts in the smaller weight classes, and if they can get away with that, snipe at a heavy weight class with an out of prime or fluke champion, and call themselves that moronic term "champ, champ".

Fedor competed at HW in Sambo. In Judo he was in the 97 kg category iirc. I don't think he was a ever a guy who would cut weight.

I don't think Crocop is built like a LHW. He's pretty muscular, specially his legs. Big LHW's tend to be less muscular or lankier.

I mean even Derrick Lewis could be a LHW if he lost all the fat. Some fighters just don't want to do it. I think it's more likely that Fedor would pack more weight before choosing to drop to 205. Same for Mirko.

 

[Claude]

Says the one who feels the need to create a fedor-praise/damage-control thread after every single high-profile UFC HW fight.

Says the one who's always on damage control for GSP.

Are you just here to whine? How about you make an argument?

 

[ThunderStruck]

Says the one who's always on damage control for GSP.

Are you just here to whine? How about you make an argument?

Tell me when i felt the need to start a thread to damage-control GSP.

My amount of damage control GSP thread : 0

Your amount of damage control Fedor thread : 50+

You lose.

 

[Baba Ghanoush]

Like clockwork, every time there’s a new HW champion there’s a flood of threads by insecure Fedor nuthuggers demeaning the accomplishment.

 

[Stoic]

Heavyweights are older than other weight classes. And the best guys often have the most experience. Who knew.

Yeah, this thread has no context. Ngannou fought and defeated those "high mileage" guys because they were the ones that were high ranked and beat all the young guys, that objectively were worse fighters than them as they lost to them. If the young guys could have beaten the "high mileage" guys and been ranked high, then Ngannou would have fought them, but they couldn't, because they are//were worse fighters, so the "high mileage" guys are the best fighters in the division and thus have more value on a fighter's resume.

 

[Fedya]

Lots of salty UFC fan boys in here who can't handle the facts.

Francis has yet to beat an all time great HW in their prime. Just like his predecessor Stipe.

 

[Claude]

Tell me when i felt the need to start a thread to damage-control GSP.

My amount of damage control GSP thread : 0

Your amount of damage control Fedor thread : 50+

You lose.

Damage control isn't just starting threads. Everytime you reply desperately and attack anyone criticizing GSP, that is damage control as well.

 

[ThunderStruck]

Damage control isn't just starting threads. Everytime you reply desperately and attack anyone criticizing GSP, that is damage control as well.

Starting a thread is the epitome of damage control and insecurity.

Totally different than just calling out some haters by replying to their posts.

 

[Maripucci]

He's beating everyone that stands in front of him. He's the champ now show some respect

 

[Blond]

Neither Stipe nor Ngannou missed out on fighting some young rising contenders. If those vets are the best the division has to offer then OP's argument is irrelevant.

 

[Claude]

Starting a thread is the epitome of damage control and insecurity.

Totally different than just calling out some haters by replying to their posts.

What damage control? I'm posting numbers. If numbers trigger you, then you're the problem, not me.

 

[GOATtalks]

Just like Stipe, Ngannou is taking advantage of a wore down, high mileage division. Only exceptions being Curtis Blaydes and Jairzinho Rozenstruik.

Number of fights and years active at the time they fought:

Arlovski: 18 years active, 39 fights
Ngannou: 4 years active, 10 fights

Overeem: 18 years active, 59 fights
Ngannou: 4 years active, 11 fights,

Cain: 13 years active, 16 fights,
Ngannou: 6 years active, 15 fights

JDS: 13 years active, 26 fights
Ngannou: 6 years active, 16 fights

Stipe: 11 years active, 23 fights
Ngannou: 7 years active, 18 fights


Overall:

-71% of Ngannou's top ranked opponents had been fighting for 11 years or more.
-57% of his top opponents had been fighting for 13 years or more.
-The average mileage of his top ranked opponents is: 12 years active and 26 fights.

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Bottom line:

Looks like the best way to succeed at HW is to be young and fresh (fightwise) and fight mostly high mileage fighters, as Stipe and Francis have shown.

Ngannou fought even more diminished versions of Arlovski, Overeem and JDS than Sipe did. Also Francis will fight yet another high mileage fighter next, whether it's Jones or Lewis. The HW division has failed to produce fresh talent for many years.

In fights, timing is key.

"It's not WHO you beat that matters, it's WHEN you beat them".

Your argumentation is just plain stupid and wrong. You make it seem like everyone starts in their best form and only deteriorate over time. You have completely ignored such aspects as skill and experience.

There are 3 main points that completely destroys argument.

1. Ngannou’s 2 loses in UFC were to guys that were older and had way more mileage.

2. Ngannou’s wins over young 100% prime fighters (Blaydes, Rozenstruik), were some of his easiest fights.

3. Ngannou only became the champion after he acquired considerable mileage himself.

 

[Fedya]

@GOATtalks lmaooo nah fam you bugging. What mileage has Ngannou accumulated in the 2 minutes he's had in the cage in the last 3 years dummy?

Lol

 

[GOATtalks]

Welcome to modern day HW

I blame UFC's inability to scout talent like other major league sports

Boxing has the same issue, depth is lacking

Where do you see you a lack of young talent?

Ngannou
Gane
Rozenstruik
Blaydes
Aspinall
Daukas
Pavlovich
Romanov
Sakai
Tuivasa
Hardy
Spivak
Felipe

Isn’t this enough for you?

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

Stipe got a lot of heat for this same thing, but i see a lot of people defending Ngannou here that weren't defending Stipe.

 

[Stump]

These threads are so dumb

Why waste all this time compiling average ages of heavyweight fighters the Champs have beaten?

It's heavyweight, you absolute idiots. They are all old. That's just how it is

Do you think there's some secret supply of experienced, capable young heavyweights locked away in a cave somewhere, kept away from the champ in order to artificially inflate his record?