History of the guard

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by pa33, Mar 11, 2008.

  1. pa33

    pa33 Yellow Belt

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    Hi,

    I'm curious if anyone knows the history of the closed guard. I heard from some sources that it was primarily Helio Gracie who invented it, but in the early UFCs, Taktarov used it too and he was a sambo guy. Did sambo develop the guard independently or did they borrow it from the Gracies or what?
     
  2. Reveen

    Reveen Purple Belt

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    I think the guard originated in Judo but the Gracies developed it and took it to a completely new level.
     
  3. Hammer Time

    Hammer Time Brown Belt

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    japanese jiu jitsu im guessing. if not then judo either one.

    no helio did not invent it.
     
  4. ooitzoo

    ooitzoo Purple Belt

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    Helio did not invent the closed guard but Eddie Bravo did invent the rubber guard
     
  5. blanko

    blanko Guest

    if you look closely oleg had a very sloppy and open "closed guard" he really wasn't very good off his back.
     
  6. salboski

    salboski Brown Belt

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    It probably goes all the way back to the days of pankration.
     
  7. ichimonji

    ichimonji Blue Belt

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    The guard was invented the first time a small guy was knocked on his ass. He put his feet up in front of him so as not to get hit in the face.

    I think he learned it from the common house cat.
     
  8. Sohei

    Sohei Manning the air

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    It was used in traditional Japanese jujitsu and taijutsu a long time ago
     
  9. 350 lbs fist

    350 lbs fist Black Belt

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    Maybe the name but not the type of guard.

    Nino Schembri was doing that type of guard way before Bravo.
     
  10. ooitzoo

    ooitzoo Purple Belt

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    It was sarcasm
     
  11. Mohawk79

    Mohawk79 Orange Belt

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    From what I understand, Renzo Gracie talked about the origin of the guard in "Mastering Jujitsu". He said it originated with the Fusen Ryu style of Jujutsu in Japan that focused mostly on groundwork.
     
  12. Trickster***

    Trickster*** Banned Banned

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    Nino did hold his leg to help keep the guy down but it ended there...Bravo took that philosphy and ran with it! I give Eddie 98% of the credit for the rubber guard!

    Nino never hugged the knee or did any of the things that make the rubber guard what it is now.

    People hate giving Eddie credit...I just dont understand why? Eddie Bravo is in the top 2% of ALL BJJ players! Stop the hate people =)
     
  13. blanko

    blanko Guest

    it's outragous claims like this that make people roll their eyes. Eddie came SECOND ONCE in ADCC. Never did anything else.
     
  14. Kimuralex

    Kimuralex Brown Belt

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    where do you get all these numbers from ? 98 %, 2%, where are these coming from?
     
  15. ooitzoo

    ooitzoo Purple Belt

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    wow...def did not think my mild sarcasm would lead to all this...
     
  16. Thalion

    Thalion Green Belt

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    Guard was a judo technique and come from ancient jujutsu style like Tenshin shinnyo ryu and Fusen ryu, just like the other ground technique that maeda teached to the gracie.


    pics from Judo Kyohan (1906-1915, Maeda lef japan in 1914)

    Open guard
    [​IMG]

    Gyaku juji jime from closed guard

    [​IMG]


    This are video of judo Sparring from 1922, so about the same time Maeda was teaching to the gracie , show some newaza (groundwork in it)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qasGAXl60Wg


    Other pics from judo kyohan

    http://www.jigorokano.it/JKORG/Newaza Origini/Tanabe2.jpg

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    http://www.jigorokano.it/Imm.Ne Waza/Okuri Eri Jime/Okuri Eri Jime Imai.jpg

    http://www.jigorokano.it/Imm.Ne Waza/Ude Garami/Y Ude Garami.jpg



    other pics http://www.jigorokano.it/Cartella Yokoyama/Indice.html
     
  17. Ryo

    Ryo Black Belt

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    Renzo Gracie is not a historian, so it would probably be unwise to take what he says as the gospel. I'm sure the guard has origins even before Fusen Ryu. So are we saying, the act of laying on your back and locking another person's joints or choking them out is only like 200 years old? Even though there have been unarmed wrestling styles in Japan for well over a thousand years?
     
  18. TacWar

    TacWar Green Belt

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    yeah but Jean Jacques Machado hugged his knee and did a lot of the stuff we consider part of the rubber guard. The guy didn't invent anything he just marketed it. Its like with his "twister" people have been doing that since the seventies maybe even before. He gave it a new name and put a PR Spin on it.
     
  19. ooitzoo

    ooitzoo Purple Belt

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    [​IMG]
     
  20. BenWS

    BenWS Orange Belt

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    Anyone who wins the us trials then went on to the third round of the adcc is a top level grappler in my eyes. He didn't have easy competition either to get to that third round, gustavo dantas and royler gracie arn't easy opponents in my books. Even thou it only happened once, for someone to achieve that means he must have skills. You dont get to the third round of adcc being an ok grappler.

    I'm not a huge fan of his game, but if your going to hate on him do it because of his music or his personality, you can't really question him for being a great grappler. He isn't going to win adcc or the mundials, but he is a great grappler.


    Getting back on topic, i think the second generation of gracies (rolls etc) really helped develop the guard alot. I think in helios day the guard wasn't really a great position to be in, he didn't even know what a triangle was.
     

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