High level wrestler will always lose to a high level boxer. If elite boxers entered they dominate

[laleggenda27]

I'm not new to the game, I've always thought this. Kickboxing is such a small sport that it wouldn't be bringing in enough elite fighters, nor would the skill level be as high as it could with a much bigger pool like boxing has. Same goes for MT. Randy Couture beating a brain damaged Toney doesn't count. I've said it a few times on this thread amd nobody has answered:

Why would Toney who is a high level boxer fight in MMA for a fraction of what he could make in boxing? Why would he take that fight? He was in no state to take that fight and it shouldn't have been allowed. They took advantage of a vulnerable fighter

Nobody who understands the history of the sport uses Couture-Toney as the definitive answer. Your answer should be derived from over twenty years of MMA history, where pure strikers have repeatedly been dumped on their heads. It's not as easy as saying, "just teach a boxer some TDD and BJJ." That's absurd and devoid of logic. Do you honestly believe that a boxer with a little TDD and BJJ training will stop an NCAA all-american from dumping him on his head?

And as I said, kickboxing is far more effective than boxing. Floyd is one of the greatest boxers of all time, and a mediocre kickboxer would completely embarrass him.

None of this is new information.

 

[Dublin]

I get what you are tryng to say.

As it is now yea wrestlers dominate but if top young talent from boxing comes in the % will be very different then what we saw in the past.

Yeah this is basically my point. I'm a bit more extreme than you but my general point is that the top young talent from boxing surpasses that of other combat sports in terms of athleticism (and skill level in relative terms). Saying that wrestling dominates boxing isn't true because we don't have a large enough sample size of elite boxers in their prime fighting grapplers who also have similar experience in MMA.

 

[Dublin]

Nobody who understands the history of the sport uses Couture-Toney as the definitive answer. Your answer should be derived from over twenty years of MMA history, where pure strikers have repeatedly been dumped on their heads. It's not as easy as saying, "just teach a boxer some TDD and BJJ." That's absurd and devoid of logic. Do you honestly believe that a boxer with a little TDD and BJJ training will stop an NCAA all-american from dumping him on his head?

And as I said, kickboxing is far more effective than boxing. Floyd is one of the greatest boxers of all time, and a mediocre kickboxer would completely embarrass him.

None of this is new information.

Well depends on your definition of mediocre kickboxer but yes I agree a non elite (but still high) level kickboxer could beat Mayweather due to kicks. Likewise for MT fighters. However that is a bit different to wrestling since kickboxers can kick from range whereas wrestlers do have to close the gap at some stage.

 

[One MMA Fan]

Yeah this is basically my point. I'm a bit more extreme than you but my general point is that the top young talent from boxing surpasses that of other combat sports in terms of athleticism (and skill level in relative terms). Saying that wrestling dominates boxing isn't true because we don't have a large enough sample size of elite boxers in their prime fighting grapplers who also have similar experience in MMA.

I will still favor top wrestlers to an extent but I will not be surprised if it goes down a 50-50% split.

But what we saw with examples as the Randy fight is 0 to me in terms of relevance (age, past his prime, punch drunk ?, not taking it serious enough, just getting a pay check)... same for anyone who brings that Big Tim KO to the table.

Take legit top young boxers put them in a MMA training camp and be surprised as just how many will avoid TDs and get the win it's not this omg 90-10% split like people like to think.. in fact they don't even realize what kind of a monster is a top young boxer.. I wished they made that Conor vs Floyd fight just to see how embarrassing it will be in reality.. a child vs a man type of deal.

 

[TallGHunter]

Pro boxer at the top of his division like Mayweather vs high level olympic gold medal winning wrestler in same weight class Mayweather wins 10/10 times. We have seen the success that top wrestlers have had in UFC and MMA in general. That is because there's not enough or in fact any money in wrestling so MMA will attract guys who want to use their skills. Boxing is completely different, there is much more money at every level. Top guys that aren't huge draws can still make McGregor money. So we don't get high level stars coming here in their prime.

A lot of people think that wrestling is more effective because in general wrestling has had more success in the octagon but this is because as we know there are a lot of very high level wrestlers and no high level boxers in the UFC so there's no fair way of comparing the two. But lets face it boxing attracts much much much more elite athletes than wrestling does and has a much more global reach. We have seen a guy like Brock who was a very accomplished college wrestler come in and have a lot of success with pretty much just wrestling, athleticism and a little bit of help with BJJ and striking. If you brought in guys like Mayweather in his prime and gave him some help with takedown defense and BJJ he would be unstoppable. Same goes for any top pro boxer. Boxing is dying a slow death and MMA will continue to grow. Hopefully some day we will get to see great boxers fight in their prime in the octagon.

Agree/disagree?

James Tooney, Ray Mercer.... good thing these guys were bottom rung.

If you're a boxer that just happened to have tried out for the Olympics in say Freestyle/Greco-Roman, yea, could do pretty good.

 

[Queen B]

You seem to think more money = better fighter, boxing and MMA are completely different, for MMA Wrestling is one of the strongest bases, boxing is not. There is far more evidence that wrestling>boxing as a lone skill than the other way around in MMA.

Put the same division Olympic level wrestler against the same Olympic level boxer in a MMA match and I think the wrestler takes the boxer down and whoops his ass way more often than not.

More money = better athlete, not better fighter

 

[kimchi dog taco]

this idiot forgot that high level boxer JAMES TONEY lost to mid-level wrestler RANDY COUTURE
high level boxer HOLLY HOLMS lost to high school level wrestler MIESHA TAINT

FLUSH THIS SHIT THREAD

 

[DS7]

gotta love those delusional Boxing fans lmao.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

More money = better athlete, not better fighter

It's still BS.

 

[$uicideboy$]

What's your point?

that the post you made was silly

 

[Watermelonfresh]

No I have watched for years. A long time now we have the ppvs for free here on tv so its easy.

Whatever troll

 

[lukaswithelidof]

The closest we will see is/was Anderson Silva - quick reflexes, jedi head movement. Even then those fighters meet a Chris Weidman type whose grappling is better than their striking. At the point a fighter has to stop training pure boxing, -and I guess you would to be competent in grapping, kicks etc-
that person is longer an elite boxer. All that head movement and timing is based on boxing angles. As a trillion people have said before this post you have to train many martial arts to be good at mma.

Mma boxing doesn't equal traditional boxing.

Traditional boxer with great tdd doesn't equal great mma boxer.

 

[laleggenda27]

Well depends on your definition of mediocre kickboxer but yes I agree a non elite (but still high) level kickboxer could beat Mayweather due to kicks. Likewise for MT fighters. However that is a bit different to wrestling since kickboxers can kick from range whereas wrestlers do have to close the gap at some stage.

You don't seem to understand that boxing and MMA striking are different. A high level boxer would need to unlearn many of the habits from boxing. The stance is different, the defense is different, and the movement is different. The transition from wrestling to MMA is far easier and more intuitive than from boxing to MMA.

Is it possible for a high level boxer to become a good MMA fighter? Sure. But if we're talking about what's the best base to become an MMA fighter, then wrestling, BJJ, and kickboxing are all far better than boxing.

 

[DrGlaze]

I believe a great boxer with good footwork is more likely to give a wrestler problems. They would still most likely lose without cross training.

 

[Lockard The GOAT]

we could see in increase in WMMA boxing talent , no way Holm goes to MMA if she was making more in Boxing , until money is the same or more guys with high level boxing talent will be going to boxing , its easier & pays more can you blame them.

Or she would do it simply because it interests her and she's already accomplished just about everything there is to accomplish in boxing. Money isn't the only reason to do something.

 

[ocfightfan]

Pro boxer at the top of his division like Mayweather vs high level olympic gold medal winning wrestler in same weight class Mayweather wins 10/10 times. We have seen the success that top wrestlers have had in UFC and MMA in general. That is because there's not enough or in fact any money in wrestling so MMA will attract guys who want to use their skills. Boxing is completely different, there is much more money at every level. Top guys that aren't huge draws can still make McGregor money. So we don't get high level stars coming here in their prime.

A lot of people think that wrestling is more effective because in general wrestling has had more success in the octagon but this is because as we know there are a lot of very high level wrestlers and no high level boxers in the UFC so there's no fair way of comparing the two. But lets face it boxing attracts much much much more elite athletes than wrestling does and has a much more global reach. We have seen a guy like Brock who was a very accomplished college wrestler come in and have a lot of success with pretty much just wrestling, athleticism and a little bit of help with BJJ and striking. If you brought in guys like Mayweather in his prime and gave him some help with takedown defense and BJJ he would be unstoppable. Same goes for any top pro boxer. Boxing is dying a slow death and MMA will continue to grow. Hopefully some day we will get to see great boxers fight in their prime in the octagon.

Agree/disagree?

Disagree. First of all your post is rambling and unclear. Second I guess you are trying to claim that a high level boxer with minimal work in the other areas could walk right in and dominate everyone in MMA.

I beg to differ.

I think you do not have an adequate understanding of what is required to develop a decent level of takedown defense and submission defense or what it takes to get back to the feet or how to deal with kicks, knees, and elbows. This is an entire universe of other skills to practice, not to mention the time that would be taken away from keeping boxing skills sharp, or the fact that there is only 24 hours in a day and finite recovery ability.

 

[ZipZito]

Disagree strongly. The threat and constant worry of a takedown minimizes the threat of a one dimensional, even though great, boxer getting his game going.

 

[bigpunch]

 

[kpt018]

that the post you made was silly

The post I made was a fact and it's not my problem you're too slow to realize the difference.

Besides, how does Mercer KO'ing Syliva prove anything? We fucking know a boxer can punch. And Mercer had MMA training.

 

[$uicideboy$]

The post I made was a fact and it's not my problem you're too slow to realize the difference.

Besides, how does Mercer KO'ing Syliva prove anything? We fucking know a boxer can punch. And Mercer had MMA training.

"well we saw what happened to james toney" = "well we saw what happend to tim sylvia"
why are u so triggered