Helsinki’s Radical Solution to Homelessness

[tmnpothead]

When I was homeless it was as easy as signing a piece of paper to get an apartment. It took around 4 months for one to become available but I had a shelter to stay at until then. Even for homeless people who don’t have a job they only have to pay $50 a month. That covers utilities too.

 

[TeTe]

Here's another good for you guys on the subject of actually taking resources offered to you.

My fiancé works in a prison here in California and teaches a transitions program to inmates to help them re-adjust to the real world once they get out and put them in touch resources and jobs. You know what the number one comment is to her when she's trying to get this guys in touch with felon friendly employers?

"Fuck that, when I get out, I'm just going to collect social security" Considering many of these inmates in for drug offences, you can imagine how far that gets them.

A parole agent told me once that a lot of guys getting out of prison become voluntarily homeless so the state cannot tell them where to parole to and cannot be tracked by their agents. Imagine not wanting to have to meet with your parole agent and have to conform to the terms of your release that you're willing to live on the street.

 

[Jack V Savage]

It's funny though because people like @Jack V Savage make these snide, back handed comments toward me as if the solution is so simple as just giving people shit while not addressing the root causes for homelessness.

Relax, guy. It was a joke.

I do think that there's a desire to present fairly simple problems as being hopelessly complex because people don't like the obvious solutions. And obviously the discussion can go beyond the obvious solutions (as in, giving people money solves poverty, but there are tradeoffs and other issues to consider).

 

[Higus]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/apr/28/trump-wisconsin-rally-touts-economy

Your welcome halfwit

*You're

 

[Islam Imamate]

The bottom line is that we need to address the root of the evil in almost all cases and that's curing addiction and mental illness. All the housing and money in the world isn't going to fix that if you cannot lead a horse to water. Sadly, people need to hit rock bottom to do that. There are wealthy people beyond belief that piss away their money and end up homeless because of addiction.

Downtown Portland is littered with clinics, shelters and missions and yet they remain half empty because people can't adhere to the one rule have to stay there.... stay sober. They even built a village with tiny homes for people in South Portland as well. Some can adhere to the community rules, some can't and get the boot.

In California is much of the same exists. I know that the state of California offers up to $2,000 per person to assist people who are trying to remain sober that have gotten into some sort of trouble to live in sober living homes and keep them off the streets. They are all over Southern California and yet many of the people that live there fuck up and relapse and end up back on the streets in spite of being offered a clean, safe place to live. I know this because a friend of mine runs six of these homes here.

It's funny though because people like @Jack V Savage make these snide, back handed comments toward me as if the solution is so simple as just giving people shit while not addressing the root causes for homelessness. I grew up in poverty and broken home. My mother is on the verge of homelessness now because she refuses to get sober and agree to the rules of these facilites. It's not hard to see that money cannot fix a cycle of addition and abuse and mental illness. But shame on me for being so stupid for not just saying... cutting check to someone will fix human nature.

Look, I'm not saying the method that you posted isn't worthwhile and if it works in the end for some people, great. People here do have options too though.

I agree that addiction and mental illness are key factors in the homelessness problem but housing first doesn't sidestep that, it addresses it. First you get people a roof over their head with no conditions, then after they have that you can start to work with them on the addiction. Housing is just such a basic need that without it I think other problems get seriously exacerbated. That's why its called housing first, not housing first and last. These programs still need to address issues like addiction and mental illness but that's easier to do when the person isn't living on the streets or in and out of shelters and emergency rooms.

 

[Pseudo Sane]

You can't solve homelessness just by throwing homes at the problem.

Ha! Okay, that's pretty good.

More seriously though, as with all policy questions, the really important question is what are you leaving underfunded or unfunded. Everything is about tradeoffs.

Obviously if you have infinite resources, there is no principled reason not to simply give everyone a home. The trick is figuring out whether this initiative makes sense in the real world, where Western societies are wealthy, and have to make tough decisions about what is worth funding.

All that being said, I'd be interested in seeing some limited trials run in the USA just to see how it worked out.

 

[Mendacious]

Here's another good for you guys on the subject of actually taking resources offered to you.

My fiancé works in a prison here in California and teaches a transitions program to inmates to help them re-adjust to the real world once they get out and put them in touch resources and jobs. You know what the number one comment is to her when she's trying to get this guys in touch with felon friendly employers?

"Fuck that, when I get out, I'm just going to collect social security" Considering many of these inmates in for drug offences, you can imagine how far that gets them.

A parole agent told me once that a lot of guys getting out of prison become voluntarily homeless so the state cannot tell them where to parole to and cannot be tracked by their agents. Imagine not wanting to have to meet with your parole agent and have to conform to the terms of your release that you're willing to live on the street.

One of the most common misconceptions is a lack of resources here in the states. But all the resources in the world mean nothing if you don’t take advantage of it. I remember someone linked Google Maps of an area in Baltimore that had riots a few years ago and the immediate area had a few facilities for “social services”

that’s one of the things that frustrates me about people who use “rehabilitation” like it’s some magical word. You can’t rehabilitate most drug addicts and probably most people going to jail have substance abuse issues.

Yet I constantly hear about “rehabilitation.” It really has become this magic word that will cure America of its ills.

 

[TeTe]

One of the most common misconceptions is a lack of resources here in the states. But all the resources in the world mean nothing if you don’t take advantage of it. I remember someone linked Google Maps of an area in Baltimore that had riots a few years ago and the immediate area had a few facilities for “social services”

that’s one of the things that frustrates me about people who use “rehabilitation” like it’s some magical word. You can’t rehabilitate most drug addicts and probably most people going to jail have substance abuse issues.

Yet I constantly hear about “rehabilitation.” It really has become this magic word that will cure America of its ills.

And honestly, even a ten percent success rate would be awesome. We should all be willing to help the willing and go the extra mile for those who are putting their best foot forward. You're right, we do have the resources available for the small percentage of the willing. Shame that so much is going to waste.

 

[1pedestrian]

Sterilization is better. I don't want to work to sustain parasites.

 

[WhiteMousse]

i'm sure i'll get chef'd on in this thread, but by and large people in the US not only don't feel sorry for homeless people......they bother and digust many people

nobody likes moochers

that being said, something needs to be done especially here in California. Even where i live in literal Hills Have Eyes territory every single gas station/convenience store has multiple homeless people begging. Even in the summer when it's 115+ outside

that's.....a problem

What I'm about to say is the unfortunate and horrible truth.

The fact of the matter is that we're in a stage of human evolution where we can keep people plugging along, but not keep them living well.

The natural order of things is that the strong survive and the weak either serve or die. It's awful and it took a while for me to see it, and in the end it cost me my faith in both god and humanity, but it's the truth.

There are people who will, for their entire existence, be nothing but a burden. And shouldering that burden is an option but it's an expensive one. More things get done, and the strong live richer lives, if those people are discarded.

 

[Pseudo Sane]

Relax, guy. It was a joke.

I do think that there's a desire to present fairly simple problems as being hopelessly complex because people don't like the obvious solutions. And obviously the discussion can go beyond the obvious solutions (as in, giving people money solves poverty, but there are tradeoffs and other issues to consider).

I mean, giving a poor heroin addict tons of money technically solves his poverty and drug addiction problem, since he will go on a likely-fatal bender, but if we are going that route, giving him a single hot dose is probably simpler and certainly cheaper.

 

[ElKarlo]

Didn't salt lake city do something like this? Where they'd basically just get apartments for anyone that's homeless

 

[HunterSdVa29]

What I'm about to say is the unfortunate and horrible truth.

The fact of the matter is that we're in a stage of human evolution where we can keep people plugging along, but not keep them living well.

The natural order of things is that the strong survive and the weak either serve or die. It's awful and it took a while for me to see it, and in the end it cost me my faith in both god and humanity, but it's the truth.

There are people who will, for their entire existence, be nothing but a burden. And shouldering that burden is an option but it's an expensive one. More things get done, and the strong live richer lives, if those people are discarded.

so are you, per chance, proposing A Modest Solution?

i.e. cut them off and let them fend for themselves?

I've been saying for years we need to drastically overhaul our SW safety net (Our = US in my case) due to the lack of pensions, average 401k having a loan out against it, stagnant wage growth, life expectancy, etc... Less and less people have retirement savings, what is that going to mean for the Elderly in say 20 years?

The only other feasible solution is the tongue in cheek reference to Swift's treatise about curing hunger in Ireland.

 

[Pseudo Sane]

Didn't salt lake city do something like this? Where they'd basically just get apartments for anyone that's homeless

Utah is...different...for reasons.

 

[Jack V Savage]

I mean, giving a poor heroin addict tons of money technically solves his poverty and drug addiction problem, since he will go on a likely-fatal bender, but if we are going that route, giving him a single hot dose is probably simpler and certainly cheaper.

Pre-transfer poverty in the developed world is about three-quarters children, the elderly, and the disabled. It's an inevitable result of using the market to distribute income that about a quarter of the population will not have above-poverty income (and that holds for every country). The only solution is non-market income for the poor.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Pre-transfer poverty in the developed world is about three-quarters children, the elderly, and the disabled. It's an inevitable result of using the market to distribute income that about a quarter of the population will not have above-poverty income (and that holds for every country). The only solution is non-market income for the poor.

Or we could unleash the free market by getting rid of red tape like child labor laws and retirement.

 

[HomeCheese]

Housing first is pretty well recognized as the best solution among homeless advocates in the US. Certainly not all of them should get homes but most of the chronic homeless have multiple psycho/social and medical conditions and wind up costing the tax payers buckets of money via emergency room visits. These are not people that are going to pull themselves up by the boot straps. Housing first is actually cheeper than all the ER cost for many of the heavy utilizers.

Plus it's more humane.

 

[ObamaPhoneLady]

I don't even want a free house. I want it to not be fucking illegal for me to build a house on uninhabited land.

It's bullshit here in Canada that we have all this wide open space that no one is using and we're all forced to buy into about 10% of the habitable land at a ridiculous markup.

 

[ObamaPhoneLady]

Not sure what the point of the comment is. He didn't mention anything being free and of course it wouldn't be, if someone can come up with a free solution to homelessness or poverty these discussions would be a moot point

Sure but the question is are these programs more or less effective than a housing first approach? Housing first may be more expensive upfront compared to other approaches but there are potential savings as well such as on emergency room visits by the homeless.

I don't think American cities should just copy and paste Helsinki's solution, every city has its own particularities to consider. But housing first seems like n approach worth considering given the apparent failure of current approaches.

I can't come up with a free solution, but I can come up with a cheap one.

It involves putting ricin in heroin balloons.

 

[Gregolian]

Didn't salt lake city do something like this? Where they'd basically just get apartments for anyone that's homeless

Utah is...different...for reasons.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...tah-struggles-with-homelessness-idUSKCN1P41EQ

Eeeehhhhhh... it's struggling now.