Helping newbies during rolling

Wow, thank you all for all the different perspectives! It is always good to get other people's opinion in order to clarify what you hold objectively or subjectively in your head. You guys have really reinforced some good values, thanks again!
 
theFelix said:
All in all I'm an 9th degree white belt if you count all the stripes from all 4 schools. Ridiculous sounding I know but that is my point, the color of a person's belt should not be the only yardstick of their experience level ;)
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I've taught lots of shit professionally, including assorted martial arts. Among them is not BJJ. I have studied grappling and other martial arts all over the world over more than two decades. I am not of the opinion that my qualifications to teach certain stuff equals qualification to teach other stuff.

When I go to BJJ class I typically only say a few things when training is actually going on; Yes Sir. No Sir. Could you show me that again? What am I doing wrong here? Thank you.

OTOH, I do know a few BJJ white belts with substantial background in submission wrestling, folkstyle etc., that I gladly take pointers from on things they have expertise in.
 
I guess I am lucky since the classes I take have 4-8 fighters (all have had at least 3 or more fights) in my class, and I always ask, is this right? Should I do this? How about that? Will this work? etc....

They are always helpful and none of us get yelled at for it.

But then again, the gym I go to is centered around MMA training, and if you can help your teammates, it helps everyone.

I personally learn better if someone slams me once or twice, then shows me how they were able to do it so easy, and shows me how to prevent it.
 
my school has many higher level belts participating in the class, a few blacks, some browns, many purples / blues.

i always ask objective questions and noone seems to mind, especially not me, the advice =)
 
I know I kept my mouth shut when it came to teaching the newbies for the first year.

Now that I'm a brownbelt its expected of me to help "coach" the new guys in randori rather than beat the hell out of them. I'll set up the sub, or pin on the ground if they leave it open just to show them what could happen, but for the most part I let them learn. In standing randori I'll toss them when they leave themselves open for it, but not too hard.
 
Thrawn33 said:
I know I kept my mouth shut when it came to teaching the newbies for the first year.

Now that I'm a brownbelt its expected of me to help "coach" the new guys in randori rather than beat the hell out of them. I'll set up the sub, or pin on the ground if they leave it open just to show them what could happen, but for the most part I let them learn. In standing randori I'll toss them when they leave themselves open for it, but not too hard.
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Yeah, browns are traditionally the assistant instructors of a Judo dojo and Purples and above are traditionally assistant instructors in a BJJ gym. These are guys with sufficient training to help out.

Lower ranks than that may occasionally help out with running drills or soemthing but I just don't know that a white belt in anything should be going out of their way to give instruction. We've all probably done it from time to time to correct a major problem but I don't think people should make a habit of it.

And I especially can't stand the guy that is always saying, "But I learned to do it such-and-such way at Master Kim's Ninja Academy. I heard so and so does it like..."
 
stu3ufc said:
and your instructor is a douche

just dont be one of those know it all guys who know the technique but do it wrong
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No the instructor is not a douche. He's a good guy and a good teacher. A lot of people like training there and have not had any of the problems the threadstarter is talking about.
 
maybe you don't practice what you preach. and also maybe you roll with no heart.

in light of that maybe your instructor doesn't really respect you in that sense and you trying to be a teacher just seems phony to him.

im not saying you are or aren't im just offering a possibility.
 
beatenup said:
maybe you don't practice what you preach. and also maybe you roll with no heart.

in light of that maybe your instructor doesn't really respect you in that sense and you trying to be a teacher just seems phony to him.

im not saying you are or aren't im just offering a possibility.
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I'm pretty sure he doesn't respect me :)

But the people that have rolled with me will tell you that I have a ton of heart and even more important a genuine love for BJJ.

As an educator and a clinical psychopathologist it is kind of instilled in me to try to help people out. My professional training (as in food on the table not martial arts) is based on reading social cues and we've all been noobs....it sucks, its frustrating and for a lot of people if you don't encourage them or offer a glimmer of hope at the end of the tunnel they get discouraged.

I earned 3 striped at that gym with a partial tear on my rotator cuff so I know where my heart is and that is what is most important!
 
Jim J said:
No the instructor is not a douche. He's a good guy and a good teacher. A lot of people like training there and have not had any of the problems the threadstarter is talking about.
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I wouldn't call him a douche, that said, I strongly disagree with a lot of things going on in that school and ultimately felt dissatisfaction as a customer. So I left, or tried doing so quietly but it wasn't in the cards. I'm going to start competing and will probably see some of my old training partners at tournaments.

I hope they are mature and remember me as the guy they rolled and laughed with instead of trying to rip my arms out to please their teacher.

Curious to see that one pan out.
 
I'll make a comment here or there if I'm rolling with a white belt who does something that puts himself in danger of a sub or a bad position. Like today I advised a white belt on proper guard posture because he was pretty much giving me the armbar.

When I roll with noobies, I like to try shit I don't usually go for, and try to improve the weakest aspects of my game. For example, instead of doing shit I know I could hit all day long without too much effort, such as a kimura/armbar from the top or a sub from the guard, I try to set up techniques that I want to get better at such as spider guard, x guard, collar chokes from back mount, etc.

I never go to my A game against newbies. It's a waste of time and neither of us learns anything. I already know I can sub them all over the place so what's the point? White belts are for trying new moves, combos, transitions, or working on your escapes. A lot of times I'll just start out a roll by giving up my back and then working out of it. Or let them pass my guard so I can work on side control escapes.
 
My instructors, when they roll with us, are looking to teach during the roll. None of us, that I have seen, attempt to coach each other....sometimes we'll look at each other and go "Mm, not sure I've got that....lets try again" or "Lets ask".

Not too long ago...and I'm a noob with capital letters, they had me roll with a guy with more experience than me, but not a ton. He said after the roll that I 'was killing him'. I just scratched my head....I didn't feel like I accomplished anything offensive against him. Come to find out that my instructor was upset with the OTHER GUY for going so hard with me.

I just tried to match his intensity....our roll was for submission but we did not succeed.

Anyway, our instructors are good to keep us working when they roll with us.....'come on'.....'keep going' .....'work'.....etc. I'm still very prone to getting swept because I get my arse up.....but they are very instructional during the roll.

It helps me.....but I don't want to hear it from anyone just a bit higher than me.
 
I wanted to bring this back up because I ended up doing this monday night at practice. the guy I was working with isn't a "newb" but he isn't as experienced as I am. Nor is he someone who doesn't know who I am, we work together fairly frequently. He seems very grateful for the help and claims it has helped him progress. Because this thread was in my mind I payed a little more attention to how I go about doing it.

One of the things that I do is that I rely on lot on having them notice the difference between what they were doing and what I am showing them. I found myself saying things like, "Can you feel the difference?" or "can you see how you leave space there?" I don't get them to take my word for it, because I am not some huge authority, they trust their own experiences.

I never, ever, do that "I have a better way" thing. That is a) disrespectful to my instructor and b) probably wrong. Even if it is better for me, there is no guarentees that my way is better for him.

If I am trying to explain something and he isn't getting it, I call over the instructor and get his opinion. This does two things, IMO. The first is that it shows everyone involved (including me) that I am not substituting for the instructor. I am just helping and the instructor is the authority. And it gets him the best help to help him get the technique.

If I have problems with a technique, I ask my partner's opinion. Again this cements the idea that we are a partnership working together to better our tehcnique.

One other thing that I thought of while I wrote this out is that I normally only help people I have worked with for a while. I know that it bugs me when some guy I don't know from Adam gives unsolicited advice. He maybe good or bad, I don't know. I would like to know them a bit first. Once I know the guy a little bit, he knows I am trying to be helpful and I know if he a) needs my help and b) would be receptive. I don't need to prove how bad ass I am (anymore than any one else anyway) so if I guy doesn't want help, I am not going to bother. I just enjoy helping people learn techniques (for reasons I stated in my posts above).
 
As a coach, I can tell you straight up that some people were allowed to teach, and some people were not. Some students I trusted, some I didn't. Some were cool when they taught and only taught things they knew and understood, some got on my nerves when they taught because they would often attempt to teach things they themselves didn't know how to do. It's a case by case thing as a coach, but generally, little pointers from experienced guys to newer guys were encouraged. Just make sure your reach doesn't exceed your grasp though, because that kind of over-eagerness only spreads ignorance and irritates the hell out of the coach.

Personally, in bjj where I do not know as much, I don't do a whole lot of teaching. I give a few pointers to white belts/new blues here and there, but generally I just roll a little slower and let them learn and work through things without explicitly verbalizing too many 'teaching points.'
 
Heights..hmm..I can't think of a gym in that area that would be like that....The only real all around knowledgeable guy in that area is Tony Torres-Aponte at Urban Jungle, and he is a great guy...
 
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