Helping newbies during rolling

I should also mention I always smash the new guys first. Reason being, if you are going light from the start they may think that you aren't that good and they shouldn't listen to you. In that case, you are wasting your time. So, I always smash them 2 or 3 times real quick, then start to help them. That way they know I am good and able to help them out.
 
bottom line... you should at least be a blue or 4 stripe white before you start "giving pointers"....
 
I haven't started my submission wrestling class yet (waiting on some headgear I ordered), but I can tell you that I will welcome with open arms any suggestions and tips I'd get from the person I'm partnered up with. I can imagine that people probably don't learn anything just getting submitted over and over. Besides, if someone is giving their partner bad pointers, I'm sure the instructors would catch it as they observe people and correct the mistakes before they turn into bad habits.
 
I have learned more teaching than I have any other way. When I am teaching someone a technique, they often ask questions I don't have immediate answers for. Maybe they ask where I place a hand or something, one of the small details that you just do without realizing it. I am forced to examine my techniques and thus get a better understanding of them. Also, if I show my training partners what I am doing, it makes it harder for me to do it next time, forcing me to raise my game.

When it comes to drills or learning new techniques with a partner, I am very vocal as well. I help my partner with details that he is missing and he helps me. If neither of us can answer the question, we call the instuctor or a senoir student over for help. IMO that is the best way to do it for student that have been long enough to know the difference between a properly applied technique and a fucked up tangle.

AMEN!
 
It is important for everyone to get rolling time in. The instructor realizes this and doesn't want you giving the guy an seminar when he should be getting the feel for live grappling. At the school you are talking about, they usually only roll for about five minutes at the end of beginer class. That five minutes should be spent rolling. I really don't think the instructor has a problem with you helping newer students out, it just wasn't the right time for it.

If you show up for open mat on Saturdays, there is a lot more time.

Jim,

The structure of the school was very open so white and more advanced belts can train in either class (which I thought was nice), what you say about randori is true only its 15 rather than 5 at the end and I like many other white belts also trained at the advanced class that ran for an hour and a half right after the beginners and this is where most of the help would take place. I also believe I was told that I should take advantage of open mat time to roll and not rant.
 
bottom line... you should at least be a blue or 4 stripe white before you start "giving pointers"....

check! I also forgot to mention I had trained with the Popovitches in Ft Lauderdale and with Robin Gracie in Barcelona, Spain and that I teach for a living :)
 
Jim,

The structure of the school was very open so white and more advanced belts can train in either class (which I thought was nice), what you say about randori is true only its 15 rather than 5 at the end and I like many other white belts also trained at the advanced class that ran for an hour and a half right after the beginners and this is where most of the help would take place. I also believe I was told that I should take advantage of open mat time to roll and not rant.

Well, I guess I don't know all the details of the situation. I'm glad you found a place you like better.
 
At Serra Jiu Jitsu the teachers encourage blue belts and above to help out less experienced people. I'm a one stripe white belt and I'm often paired by the instructor with higher belts for drilling. It's a great place and white belts really appreciate it.
 
I should also mention I always smash the new guys first. Reason being, if you are going light from the start they may think that you aren't that good and they shouldn't listen to you. In that case, you are wasting your time. So, I always smash them 2 or 3 times real quick, then start to help them. That way they know I am good and able to help them out.

You know, I battle this theory day in and day out. I opted for the opposite direction this weekend. One of my students brought a friend in who had some training, but appeared to mainly use his approx 240 weight to get by. I started rolling with him, pointing out when sweeps were coming, not applying submissions, just being really nice, etc. The guy was just spazzing...I kept telling him to calm down, breathe....but the fat oaf just ended up trying to charge me over and cracked my ankle (my knee is already heavily wrapped as I'm trying to hold off on the surgery until summer).

Now, I am as much at fault for this, since I know my injury and I should have known my body's limitations. However, should this guy decide to come back, we are going to have a talk about some strict rules about how he rolls with my students. One ounce of this clumsy, fat bull-charging on my white belts and he is outta here.

I'm more on your side now, though. Smash 'em first, then teach 'em.
 
wtf, my teacher always says help the new guys, not beat on them, although beatings happen to spazzers occasionally :icon_twis
 
check! I also forgot to mention I had trained with the Popovitches in Ft Lauderdale and with Robin Gracie in Barcelona, Spain and that I teach for a living :)

Teach what for a living? I take it you are on your fourth BJJ school and still a white belt?
 
I think a lot of it has to do with how you go about it. What normally happens when I end up showing techniques, is that we will roll and I will tap him, or we will end for what ever reason, and while we are taking a bit of a breather we will chat about the roll. If I saw an area where he made a mistake (maybe the reason I caught him) or I did something he liked, I will show him the the techniques and/or the defense. That allows us to catch our breath and roll again.
 
^
I'm not saying "beat them". That makes it sound bad. But, when a new guy comes in off the streets I do believe you need to first smash them in a roll and mentally destroy any ego they had coming in. Then they will say "Oh, I really do suck at grappling. I thought because I could beat up my friends and I watch UFC that I am good. But these guys just rolled over me. Hmmmm, maybe I should train..."

IMO, some guys use this experience to fuel their desire to train, while others will say "Well this sucks. I don't want to get beat up for awhile until I get good enough, cuz I'm a pussy and my body and ego can't handle it". Personally, I would rather have the former as training partners, then the latter. Cuz the latter guys will definitely quit soon anyway. I know whenever someone in my gym starts getting better and either catches up to or surpasses me it makes me want to train harder. And the guys that are better... well they have targets on their backs, cuz they motivate me to keep on training as hard as I can to catch up. Bastards!
 
I used to train at one of those gyms where the head instructor was an expert on all facets of modern combat sports: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Muay Thai and MMA. The place seemed clean and it was in the Houston Heights which is close to where I live so I gave it a shot.

After the 5th month he started pairing me with people that were in their first DAYS of training. I remembered how frustrating those first days were so I gave them advice and pointers. I would also coach them through a submission defense rather than tap them out so that I could try to figure out what to do next.

This really rubbed the owner the wrong way and he would often chastise me in front of the class saying that I should focus on training and not be a teacher.

The people I helped seemed grateful, I got to learn new things instead of falsely feeding my ego with a submission that I should make 9 out of 10 times but, most importantly, I figured that people less stubborn than I would quit this amazing art because the learning curve is so frustrating and when asked about it they would probably say "Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu sucks, nothing but egos and jerks" thus turning more people away from trying it out.

Now I am at an awesome new school where I am actually developing a game tailored to my capabilities and not limited by my trainer's knowledge or dedication to me.

I don't want to piss him off though and am curious as to helping newbies is generally frowned upon or if I just happened to stumble upon the one place where it is a no-no?

Thanks in advance for your contributions!

Actually, when I was a couple months in the exact same thing happened to me. New guys would do little things wrong on basic moves, and I would just point out how to fix the detail.

Teacher got pissed and told me to wait until after rolling to discuss technique next time, which made sense to me.
 
If they ask for help it is a good idea to go ahead and help them no matter how stupid it might seem. It will help them get better as well your abiltiy to explain the technique or proceedure.
 
Teach what for a living? I take it you are on your fourth BJJ school and still a white belt?

Ninja, I'm a professional educator. I teach in a classroom. I've been in four schools yes and in all of them I've started from white belt as I've not wanted to impose the opinion of one teacher on another.

Now if you pay attention i wrote the Popovitch's in FLORIDA, Robin Gracie in SPAIN, the school in question which had me in 4 stripes in 5 months and my current school which stripped me of all my stripes and in 2 months I've earned back 2 of them.

I'm still a white belt out of respect and deference to each new school and teacher and because I've had to constantly relocate.

All in all I'm an 9th degree white belt if you count all the stripes from all 4 schools. Ridiculous sounding I know but that is my point, the color of a person's belt should not be the only yardstick of their experience level ;)
 
wtf, my teacher always says help the new guys, not beat on them, although beatings happen to spazzers occasionally :icon_twis


That's how we look at it. We let new students dictate how they'll be handled. If they come in with a good attitude, there first few weeks or so of rolling will involve a lot of instruction and helping. If they come in like a bull that just saw a red cape, they'll get swept, smashed, and submitted until they either accept our instruction to calm down or they decide to quit; whichever comes first.
 
This is a funny topic, because I think about it quite a bit. Not that my teacher has ever yelled at me - but because I'm trying to figure out what others think when I help.

I'm a white belt - but rather advanced for an all white belt class that we have. I've seen the curriculum before etc etc.

I only offer advice in humble fashion when I KNOW Im doing it right, and I can OBVIOUSLY see my partner doing something wrong. I wont ever just let him keep doing it wrong over and over again. It also helps when our instructor walks by and tells me im doing it right in front of the class, legitimizes me giving advice to my partner.

You just say it very respectfully like "I think (instructor name) mentioned something about using a gable grip, try that - maybe it will work better." That's basically how I approach it. If my partner likes the feedback - then I continue with more. If not, I just go on with my day.

In rolling I feel its important to roll freely, and let them experience being swept, mounted etc. Then when I have a submission I let go... I usually ask if they know what they did wrong.. and walk them through it.

If the guy is BRAND new, I won't even roll unless he really wants to. I usually show him whatever we learned today or roll in 20 second spurts where he just asks questions all the time anyways.

Then again.. there are people that dont shut up and think they know all the moves etc. Those are the worst - and I hope you're not one of those haha. They will explain things even to higher belts, and our instructor will at times straight up tell him "no.. thats wrong." Still - they continue.

Anways, my school really supports helping eachother at all times. Very different atmosphere. Most of us flock to training partners that are good - so that they just teach us as we train / roll. It's an awesome gym.
 
it's already been stated here by others, but yeah, i halfass coach newbs, but i should point out it's only those weak dudes who are still unsure of themselves - the spazzes get nothing

like this one dude one time, was going for a collar choke attempt, and i halfway fight it off, so he gives up on it right away, so i say "what are you doing? finish that choke"
 
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