Height was not the main issue in the JJ/DC fight

[OldManGrip]

height had everything to do with it imo. daniel could not fight like he normally does he struggled big time with the reach and size of Jones.

None of the guys you mentioned are as tall as Jones, except maybe bigfoot who is the slowest HW on the roster. I could tell Cormier was struggling with the height all fight.

He has fought big guys but this was the first time I thought to myself wow he looks small next to an opponent. Jones absolutely dwarfed him.

what??? cormier fought a 6'6 guy early on and all those guys are very much within an inch of jon jones, so an inch made the difference. Barnett and mir are 6'3, bigfoot and sao are 6'4 , devin cole 6'4 , lucas browne 6'5, jason riley 6'6. Seriously jones was not near the biggest, he was the most skilled. That is stupid to say jones was the biggest hes a lhw and shorter than some of dc's former competition

 

[emax]

what??? cormier fought a 6'6 guy early on and all those guys are very much within an inch of jon jones, so an inch made the difference. Barnett and mir are 6'3, bigfoot and sao are 6'4 , devin cole 6'4 , lucas browne 6'5

The issue was someone with Jone's reach, which is in fact longer than the reach of any other fighter Cormier has faced and longer than any of the HWs in the UFC, and Jone's ability to use it. Reach by itself is naturally not everything, but when you have a guy who is that skilled at exploiting it, it was insane to believe that in our quest to find someone who can bring down Jones we found it when we were looking at a guy with the worst reach disadvantage of anyone Jones as ever fought in the UFC.

 

[OldManGrip]

The issue was someone with Jone's reach, which is in fact longer than the reach of any other fighter Cormier has faced and longer than any of the HWs in the UFC, and Jone's ability to use it. Reach by itself is naturally not everything, but when you have a guy who is that skilled at exploiting it, it was insane to believe that in our quest to find someone who can bring down Jones we found it when we were looking at a guy with the worst reach disadvantage of anyone Jones as ever fought in the UFC.

some of those guys had 80 plus inch reaches, i think the 6'5 and 6'6 guy but like you said jones is skilled, he doesnt win bc he is just tall lol

 

[rush61]

Height was definetly a factor. When Jones fought someone his own height he looked mortal.

 

[MilesAbove]

Height + Weight Cut + Bad Strategy

I honestly believed Cormier had a better shot than he showed. I think he focused way too much on getting inside for dirtyboxing rather than doing what he does best.

 

[kdday]

Pat Cummins is 6'2, Mir is 6'3, Josh is 6'3, Bigfoot is 6'4, Soa is 6'4.

Jones is just that good.

jones and Stefan struve a 6'11'' man are tied for the biggest reach in the org its a little different

its not just jones height and reach, its jones knowing how to use it better than anyone else

 

[mudrubble]

DC said that bones felt bigger in the clinch than he had imagined. That probably also has to do with the height difference.

He also said very clearly that it was NOT his height or reach that made the difference no matter what people say about him, but his mentality and the way he uses his body.

He said he felt big, not that he felt tall or long. He's talking when they clinched up that as skinny as Jon looks, he feels thicker. He's not talking height and reach and he specified that to remove any ambiguity.

Now only his fans say that. He doesn't. He said it was skill and mentality. But what does he know, right?

He should just come and ask Sherdog.

 

[Phisher]

People on here have a problem with thinking things are always black and white, when everything is grey.

If you say Jones' height and reach was a factor then people will assume you think it's the only factor that makes him good. Basically most people are morons.

It's absurd to say that something is a factor when there's proof that it hasn't been in the past. Cormier has fought a half dozen guys who are significantly taller and longer than he is, and he dominated them all.

jones and Stefan struve a 6'11'' man are tied for the biggest reach in the org its a little different

its not just jones height and reach, its jones knowing how to use it better than anyone else

You're tacitly acknowledging that the real reason for the outcome of the fight was Jones' skill and fight IQ not simply the shape of his body.

 

[kdday]

It's absurd to say that something is a factor when there's proof that it hasn't been in the past. Cormier has fought a half dozen guys who are significantly taller and longer than he is, and he dominated them all.



You're tacitly acknowledging that the real reason for the outcome of the fight was Jones' skill and fight IQ not simply the shape of his body.

jones reach and height are part of why hes winning fights, that height and reach already put him ahead of most in the pack its undeniable, watch jones fights where his striking was absolutely awful and he was training with a shit camp he was destroying other guys with the same skill level he had at the time, but jones work ethic and wanting to sharpen the tools he already had is what makes him so far ahead of the pack

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

It's absurd to say that something is a factor when there's proof that it hasn't been in the past. Cormier has fought a half dozen guys who are significantly taller and longer than he is, and he dominated them all.



You're tacitly acknowledging that the real reason for the outcome of the fight was Jones' skill and fight IQ not simply the shape of his body.

I'm saying it's all a factor, size, skills, fight IQ. Stop thinking in terms of black and white.

The guys that Cormier fought that were the size of Jones don't have clinch games even close to as good as Jon's but you're a fool if you don't think his height and reach help him.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

It's absurd to say that something is a factor when there's proof that it hasn't been in the past. Cormier has fought a half dozen guys who are significantly taller and longer than he is, and he dominated them all.



You're tacitly acknowledging that the real reason for the outcome of the fight was Jones' skill and fight IQ not simply the shape of his body.

Jones' size has always been a factor in his fights. Cormier was bigger at HW and he fought guys that were less skilled in the clinch than Jones is, in Mir's case a lot less skilled.

Try to understand what i'm saying before deciding to argue against it.

 

[Doodles]

LOL Most of this forum was convinced that Cormier's feats against large HWs meant that Jones had no chance. Now, he was just too big for Cormier in spite of the fact that he's smaller than several of the guys that Cormier dominated at HW.

This sport's fanbase is full of clowns.

Correct.

 

[Phisher]

Jones' size has always been a factor in his fights. Cormier was bigger at HW and he fought guys that were less skilled in the clinch than Jones is, in Mir's case a lot less skilled.

Try to understand what i'm saying before deciding to argue against it.

I know what you're saying. It's nonsense.

Jones' size is a factor because he has the skill and fight IQ to use his body effectively. Most guys in MMA that have similar builds aren't anywhere near as successful in spite of the fact that they commonly have significant height and reach advantages over their opposition.

BTW Cormier was fatter at HW. The reduction of his gut didn't stop him from beating Cummings and man-handling Hendo "like nobody has before."

 

[kdday]

I know what you're saying. It's nonsense.

Jones' size is a factor because he has the skill and fight IQ to use his body effectively. Most guys in MMA that have similar builds aren't anywhere near as successful in spite of the fact that they commonly have significant height and reach advantages over their opposition.

BTW Cormier was fatter at HW. The reduction of his gut didn't stop him from beating Cummings and man-handling Hendo "like nobody has before."

"Its nonsense" yet you start the next sentence with jones size is a factor

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

I know what you're saying. It's nonsense.

Jones' size is a factor because he has the skill and fight IQ to use his body effectively. Most guys in MMA that have similar builds aren't anywhere near as successful in spite of the fact that they commonly have significant height and reach advantages over their opposition.

BTW Cormier was fatter not bigger at HW.

You say it's nonsense in your second sentence then in the next paragraph you go on to basically say that yes it is indeed a factor. You can't say both, it's either not a factor in his ability to succeed as a fighter or it is.

I do agree that generally when someone has a frame like Jones they tend not to be good at using it but if he didn't have that physique he wouldn't be able to do some of the things he does so it's obviously a factor.

No one is saying Jones is only successful because he's tall and has a long reach but that certainly helps.

 

[Phisher]

I'm saying it's all a factor, size, skills, fight IQ. Stop thinking in terms of black and white.

The guys that Cormier fought that were the size of Jones don't have clinch games even close to as good as Jon's but you're a fool if you don't think his height and reach help him.

Size wouldn't be a factor without the skills.

It's bizarre that this is the only type of physical advantage that people harp on when most fighter have innate physical advantages over their opposition which they have the skills to exploit to their advantages in the cage.

 

[Just a Lurker]

Tyson's skill set fits his frame perfectly, same with Jones.

This!
Just as the topic states, the main issue for DC wasn't Jones height but his skill.
Jones is able to use the advantages of his size better than any other fighter in the ufc I know AND he has managed to find ways to minimize the disadvantages he has due to his frame. (his "close-distance-elbows" etc.)

This is why Jones is such a good fighter.
If you compare him to Struve you have a fighter who is basically a Jones for Heavyweight frame wise.
So, if all it took was a sizeable height and reach advantage over your opponents to dominate a division Struve should definently be a force to be reckoned with at Heavyweight.
But because Struve doesn't use his advantages as well as Jones does this is not the case.

 

[MikeHammer**]

DC said that bones felt bigger in the clinch than he had imagined. That probably also has to do with the height difference.

No. Daniel has fought and trained with guys taller and heavier. So taller is not the key to feeling bigger. it is how you apply your size. Your positioning, leverage, adjustments. If a guy is good at using those things he will feel bigger, stronger more powerful than he is.

 

[Doodles]

Jones's height and reach are a factor but being built like a giraffe has it's drawbacks too. He doesn't have the raw power and KO ability that some thicker athletes have.


People don't acknowledge that being lanky is exploitable because Jones is so skilled, he makes it appear that there are no negatives.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

Size wouldn't be a factor without the skills.

It's bizarre that this is the only type of physical advantage that people harp on when most fighter have innate physical advantages over their opposition which they have the skills to exploit to their advantages in the cage.

It's not the only type of physical advantage people harp on. People talk about guys that have physical advantages like Lawler, Lombard and Romero all the time or Cain's freakish cardio. It's only when people talk about Jones' advantages that people get all defensive and then act like the person saying it's a factor thinks that's the only reason he's good.