height issues

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by stabmasterarson, Dec 17, 2005.

  1. stabmasterarson

    stabmasterarson Orange Belt

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    Anyone else who's short find they have problems with taller guys when rolling? Like the only time I can get a triangle locked is if the guy is skinny, because my legs are so damn short. Also when working from butterfly guard, if a guy is long and just lays on me, I find I can't get leverage....any tips for the short guy when rolling? I'm 5'7" and usually roll with guys 5'11" + and 20lbs heavier.
     
  2. StevieSparkZ

    StevieSparkZ Green Belt

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    There's a guy on here that's 5'6 that can triangle anyone in his class including the biggies.
     
  3. Ghostrider

    Ghostrider Orange Belt

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    With a gi, work on collar chokes, guillotine and armbars. bigger guys usually try to outmuscle you.

    Size really does not matter there.
    You just have to be more technical than your opponent because for the most part you will be outmuscled if you just try for strength based moves.

    NO gi? Now that is more of a challenge and I will defer the question to others although in my experience it just becomes more technical as you realize that size difference is a bigger factor IMO with NO-GI.
     
  4. flyingknee16

    flyingknee16 Brown Belt

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    if you're shorter you'll probably want to work from the top position and get the takedown ASAP. keep everything tight when you're passing guard and be aware of the triangles and gaurd stuff that the guy from the bottom can throw out. you arent at a disadvantage but you just have a different strategy you'll want to work.
     
  5. sproggdawg

    sproggdawg Nap Facilitator

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    If you have good technique then you can Triangle anyone, no matter how short you are.
     
  6. nosebleed

    nosebleed White Belt

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    i'm by no means an expert, but i'm about your side and i've definitely gotten triangles on guys far more than 20 pounds heavier. the height difference really isn't much of an issue i don't find, in fact sometimes taller guys are easier to set up triangles on because you have more room to slip your leg through. if they're only 20-30 pounds heavier than you, you shouldn't have a problem locking it up due to physical proportions. as i said, i'm not an expert, so i'm not going to try to give you advice on how to secure triangles, but i can tell you its definitely doable. when rolling with really big guys (say 200+ with big necks), then there's a point where its really difficult to lock a triangle in just because of your size.
     
  7. Foolkiller

    Foolkiller You have meddled with the primal forces of nature!

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    Just hook their leg and go to the side more, works for me.
     
  8. sproggdawg

    sproggdawg Nap Facilitator

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    As long as you can turn your hips and get a cut cut across the back of the neck with your choking leg then you can sink a solid triangle. It doesnt really matter how big you are until you get to some seriously abnormal shit.....Like being a dwarf.
     
  9. Kyle Johnson

    Kyle Johnson Amateur Fighter

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    I'm 5'7 and i do just fine grapling with guys that are taller than me. Basicly every single person i graple with is much taller than me and i love working from the guard. Just be comfortable with the moves your trying and make sure to keep the tall guy close, dont let him get to extended.
     
  10. Ybot

    Ybot Purple Belt

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    Hip positioning and get a good cut across the back of the neck. I'm tall and love triangles, what I find though is that the shorter stockier guys have more trouble picking it up, but when they get it, it's always nice and tight.
    Don't let them flatten you on your back. Always work butterfly sitting up and leaning in, or on your side with your butt out behind.
     
  11. Lobo

    Lobo Brown Belt

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    Bullfuckinshit! I'm 5'7" and we have a guy in class that about 5'10" and 360 lbs. No fuckin way I'm triangling his ass. And believe me I've tried. I'm good enough at triangles to know that no matter how good my technique is I'm just not going to nail him with it. He's just too damn big.
     
  12. flyingknee16

    flyingknee16 Brown Belt

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    haha i can say long legs definitely help though i'm 6'0" and 165 lbs and the triangle is the one move i can hit on everyone i've rolled with, even the guys who are higher belts than me.

    shit, that didnt help this thread though.
     
  13. Bubble Boy

    Bubble Boy Black Belt

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    Thank you! If the guy has a big neck and shoulders, etc, i.e. is just a big farm boy, the triangle ain't happening.

    If you're talking gi Stabmasterarson, then stick to gi chokes. You can get armbars and triangles on the Shreks of your club, but the big guy has kinda got to screw up.

    If he's in your guard you really don't want to go closed guard, and butterfly is difficult for the reasons you mentioned. You want to really keep him away form you.
    Do this by pushing him away with your feet. Push on his hips, his knees, his shins, his ankles.
    Keep him away from you.
    At some point you should be able to get an arm drag, and then go for his back. You'll really like this, I promise.
    Or... if you frustrate him he may stand up and unbalance himself over you and bang: elevator sweep. http://bjj.org/techniques/bjjfighter/gi/guard/overhead-sweep/
    I've pulled this off against the big boys in my club, hope it works for you.
     
  14. stabmasterarson

    stabmasterarson Orange Belt

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    that's my problem, I'm wrestling with a bunch of big farmboys. Also, I do no gi, but I'm thinking about using the gi now as there are some gi guys in the class I do. Bubble Boy, good points on the closed guard...I feel like it is almost useless to me at this point. I have done the elevator on guys when I get my feet on their hips and grab an arm, push legs and pull the arm, then when they push on me, take their weight on my shins, and flip them over, but then I am on top, and they bench me off. It's ok though, I am a newb, and I have to get position before submission, so if I get position, its like a victory.
     
  15. ichimonji

    ichimonji Blue Belt

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    Im 5'7''. My instructors are both over 6'. I have learned alot about fighting bigger and taller over the years. But it might take a long time to type it all. BUt here are a few things to help you.

    Guard. - When you are smaller I prefer to use the pass where you are kneeling on one leg and have one standing. I prefer double underhooks. I tend to stay clear of standing openings with long legged people. But I will stnad once the giard is open.

    Side Control. Being short often times means littler and weaker. I move alot when I pin. Side .. north south ... to the other side. I just keep rounding that half of the 360 till I can create an opening.

    1/2 guard passing. SO many guys liek the crush shoulder to their face type of 1/2 guard pass. BUt it jsut doesnt work well against super tall people who ar ebetter than you. I do more 1/2 guard passes that work with hip control and staying low than trying to smother their shoulders and neck.

    mount. ?? whats that?? Its jsut a way to get points. stay their for 4 seconds then get off ...you are gonna get tossed on your butt.

    knee on the belly. the king of submission openers ... use it always not just for points but when gunning for submissions.

    back .. yeah take the back it doesnt matter what size you are this is always the best place to be.

    ON the bottom guard ... I cant close my legs around some guys. I cant triangle even more. Learn to do the reverse triangle and do alot of transfering between arm bars and uma platas sweeps. Your not gonna submit with uma plata but you can sweep them on their back easily.

    On the bottom open guard ... I use alot of hooks. and alot of 1/2. We are small and can ball up under wreslters and off balance tem. We can use our hooks and maneuver in ways that larger people only wish they could do. Everything is hooks X and arm drags. I stay away from De La Riva.

    Standing. Well your short so what. ..lateral. YOu have got to move laterally and move alot. Always circling. Bonus we are clsoe to the ground ... its easier to change levels on the shots. Doubles, knee taps, and singles. Dont forget to practice up that swing single so you dont get trapped underneath. In Judo we have Tai Otoshi and Seoi Nage. Work your foot sweeps and gakes. Stay away from Osoto Gari and Yama Arashis. Uchi Matas can be done but are not as easy when you are taller. Try not to pull Russian, but go with traditional grips.

    I am sure there is alot that I am missing.

    The key is .. just like a left handed striker fights a right handed striker differently .. there are different games for different type of people. Learn the basics. Then learn the basics and how they are applied to each body type.
     
  16. stabmasterarson

    stabmasterarson Orange Belt

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    good advice ichimonji...that's a lot to think about. What is a "uma plata" I know what an omo plata is...is that the same thing? My stand up is really good compared to most of these guys, as far as striking, and controlling distance, and shooting in goes...actually I try to stand as much as possible... I don't know what you mean by most of the oriental descriptions of holds that you describe but I will look into them nonetheless.

    one question. when you get the side control, etc. and you are trying to isolate the arm of the stronger guy you are on top of, how do you get their arm controlled? that's my main problem. I am not strong enough against most of these guys to get their arms in a place where I could do a kimura for example, if they don't want to. I'm not totally weak either, I'm 180lbs, but some of these guys are just freaking strong...no gas, but strong as hell.
     
  17. Foolkiller

    Foolkiller You have meddled with the primal forces of nature!

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    Yes to the omoplata/uma plata thing.

    If you bring their wrist in close enough to their armpit it will take the strength out of their arm and they won't be able to straighten it at all. Your two arms should hopefully be able to at least drag his one wrist to his armpit. If their arm is like an L, it's not going to work as they can muscle out of it. However then you can try for straight armbar, but that's a whole other matter.
     
  18. nick889

    nick889 Blue Belt

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    exactly. eddie bravo cant be more than 5'7 he has a super tight triangle. i had that problem when i was a white belt (not jumping to conclusions that you are) with gettin triangles. but the longer you train you always get them, i find tall guys easier to roll with im 5'6 and i always always get the takedown and can pass easier. lankier guys arent as coordianted sometimes
     
  19. sproggdawg

    sproggdawg Nap Facilitator

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    Sorry, but I find it hard to believe you cant get a triangle, or some variation thereof on the guy. Maybe the choke wouldnt be textbook, but surely you can fit a head and an arm between your legs. I never said the triangle would be the best option, and clearly it isnt. But in my experience someone with good technique can triangle pretty much anyone unless youre talking serious extremes. Im not being rude, and maybe you really cant nail the guy for whatever reason. But i think that puts you in the minority when it comes to the triangle. Its a choke perfectly designed for small guys to use on big guys, Ive never had a problem with it and im 5'8".
     
  20. oc10spray

    oc10spray Blue Belt

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    Tall guys have longer limbs to leave hanging around to be subbed with...
     

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