Heath Herring.

Discussion in 'Worldwide MMA Discussion' started by TrevorRoss, Dec 31, 2016.

  1. TrevorRoss

    TrevorRoss Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    I hope he puts some work in and gets a big chunk of what he had back. His punches couldn't bust a grape the other night, and that's not the Texas Crazy Horse we know and love.
     
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  2. Will Samuelson

    Will Samuelson The Bear Banned

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    Still he gets props for a 38year old comeback after ages. Then puts on a show against a (well.., THEN) prospect.
     
  3. TrevorRoss

    TrevorRoss Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    I think Amir can still do big things. No shame in losing to a vet like Cro cop.
     
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  4. KOBA

    KOBA White Belt

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    Amir lost to a guy thats not only on a resurgence, but will go down in the books as one of the greatest to throw down in the history of MMA. He had 10 x more fights than amir has had, against the greatest studs of the game. If amir was gonna lose, there was only one worthy guy to lose to in the tournament....Cro cop.

    Hes 29, and still evolving, how some are writing him off so soon is quite absurd to be honest. How many other legit heavyweight prospects are there? the only other one was mordovsky, who lost to amir. If there's any more out there, RIZIN should sign them up and have a "battle for the future"

    As for heath herring, he showed that he's tough as nails, good to hear that he's making the full return to MMA.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2016
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  5. no fat chicks

    no fat chicks Worlds greatest poster

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    I felt Heath never hit his true potential, they say a lot of heavy weights take a while to come into their own so maybe the same goes with him.
     
  6. LHWBelt

    LHWBelt Silver Belt

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    Yeah Amir's had like 6 fights and is only 29, outrageous to write him off now. Many had him the tournament favorite and rightly so he made it to the finals. He's got plenty of time to improve, a lot of great wrestlers didn't even get into MMA until their thirties as it is.
     
  7. KOBA

    KOBA White Belt

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    They say you don't even hit your physical prime until your in your early 30's. Greco roman is one of the toughest sports out there period, for the experience he has in MMA, to make the finals was a great achievement. 6 fights and he's already established a name for himself in the MMA world. The next step should be Amir inviting mousasi down to AKA Thailand, as they will both speak Farsi, or even mark hunt, he's facing overeat, and just have gegard/hunt clobber on him for a few weeks and let him find a way out. its hard to believe that a guy that big and strong doesn't have the potential to develop deadly KO power. He just needs to learn to translate the KO power into a good technical kickboxing flow, or at the very least defend strikes, and not get over anxious to finish the fight once he takes you down through the flurry of punches. Ive seen photos from mike swicks instagram and he looks in good spirits, he did just win 100k after all.
     
  8. ThunderL1ps

    ThunderL1ps Red Belt

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    He has too much steroid muscle. That takes a lot of oxygen to keep a body like that going in a fight.
     
  9. KOBA

    KOBA White Belt

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    He doesn't though, he's not jacked to gills, and we cant even be sure he's still using. I remember seeing an interview of him in Iran shortly after he was banned for doping, and he was bawling his eyes out. Im sure he realised that his choice to do steroids cost him his wrestling career, Amir beat the guy to make the finals of Rio, some Turkish guy, so he could very well have been the next best thing to beat mijain lopez, but he threw it down the drain by being risky with the gear, all the guys in wrestling have used gear at some point, but the difference is they probably know when to cycle on and off, amir just got caught. I would assume going through that has made him realise its not worth it. Plus, he actually looks smaller now than he was at his peak size in greco roman when he was beefed out, he had two phases, when he competed in the 97kg he was leaner but more jacked, and then he bumped up to heavyweight which my avatar shows, made him thicker but a bit more bloated.

    I think the reason why he gassed was just a poor choice of energy dispersal, as much as that suplex on heath was a thing of beauty, it takes out so much on your gas tank, which is why vs mordovsky he opted for more energy efficient takedowns. He could have sent him flying a few times when he had his back, but chose the safer option. And then on top of the suplex, he spends the whole round throwing haymakers on herring and not connecting with all of them. His arms must have blown up. He definitely has cardio issues to solve, but to lay the blame on gear is not an argument with definitive substance IMO. You don't compete at the greco roman elite level with a crappy cardio.
     
  10. manboy<3

    manboy<3 don't card me bro

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    Watching Mordovsky wrestle with him and stuff some of his take down attempts and get up from his take downs and control him from guard pretty much told me that either Mordavsky is the most underrated wrestler in MMA or that Ali really cannot translate his wrestling in to MMA

    Amir had a massive size advantage and could not dominate Mordovsky at all who is not a wrestler in any way but more of a Sambo fighter

    if they were the same weight Amir would have been out wrestled by Mordovsky yesterday

    Amir looked real bad cardio wise as well for someone that is supposed to be a top wrestler and off the juice


    Amir has a long way to go IMO

    He is a total bust so far

    He was lucky that that there was no 3rd round against Herring or Mordovsky otherwise he would have been finished far earlier..RIZIN officials cheated Mordovsky out of a 3rd round IMO
     
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  11. ThunderL1ps

    ThunderL1ps Red Belt

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    Based on his track record and multiple offenses, I'd err on the side that he is using. Couple that with the fact there is no drug testing in Japan in Rizin as far as steroids are concerned........

    I agree with your points about lacking the MMA fight IQ/getting caught up in the moment and having energy dumps. Maybe after this tournament experience where he was gassing against Herring and Moldavsky his focus will be on his conditioning. Personally I thought both of those victories were gift passes by the promotion and that it could be argued that he should have had to fight a third round in each bout.
     
  12. KOBA

    KOBA White Belt

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    I disagree, he took him down multiple times, and controlled him fairly well. He had his back and could have easily repeated that suplex from heath herring. The reason why he won was because he was able to take him down and dominate. In both fights he won fair and square by Japanese MMA rules, he clearly won both when you look at it from a pure fight perspective, if they did that in the streets, nobody would contest that amir was controlling him.
     
  13. KOBA

    KOBA White Belt

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    Didn't somebody post that they test them for steroids before and after the fights in RIZIN? anyway, lets assume its pride days testing and they don't care, we wont know for sure if he is on anything, but if he knows his drugs well he definitely would have thrown in some stuff to help with his cardio. So for the time being steroids being a factor are just speculation I'd say.

    He will definitely grow from this tournament, he was pushed to the limits, and now he knows his strengths and weaknesses. Before it was a somewhat unknown entity. Im interested to see who his next opponent will be. I think he needs to spend a few fights just beating on some average guys to bring out his striking and cardio.
     
  14. FranOlivetto

    FranOlivetto Banned Banned

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    Personally i like Francis Ngannou and Vitaly Minakov
     
  15. manboy<3

    manboy<3 don't card me bro

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    If the did this in the streets Amir would die from a heart attack dude...

    Amir did not win in an obvious way one judge gave it to Valentin and for
    example Bloody Elbow play by play writter commented that the fight was hard to pick and a 3rd round should have been given

    Under JMMA rules the winner would be the fighter that came closest to finishing and Mordovsky came closest to winning that fight since despite being controlled more or less he had gassed Amir out and was tagging him at the end..

    Are you really going to just ignore the fact that Mordovsky - a light heavy weight with no wrestling background succesfully wrestled with Amir who is a gigantic heavy weight Gorrila that was world champ at Greco Roman?

    So what if Mordovsky was controleld for large parts of the match? The fight was a split decision and Amir only won the split because of his size advantage
    ..Are you going to ignore the fact that Amir only won a split decision because of his size?

    If they were the same weightclass Amir would have been smoked

    Amir is a bust, just admit it, I like Amir, I hope he develops but his performances against Herring and Mordovsky sucked
     
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  16. KOBA

    KOBA White Belt

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    I have to disagree, Amir has clear flaws. But he was the clear winner in the fight, mordovsky had some bright moments on the feet, but kept engaging the clinch and was taken down multiple times. I don't think he really did much beyond the couple moments on the feet.

    Your failing to remember this is a guy that walked in on heath herring with a 3-0 record, vs a guy who's been fighting in MMA since he exited the womb, I don't need to go through the wars heath herring has been in and the animals he's faced. That first round on heath herring was impressing as fuck, even if herring had been away from competition for 8 years, no average fighter would do that to herring regardless of the layoff. Amir deserves huge credit for making 2nd place in a 16 man tournament that included guys that should have, on experience alone, been way above him, there was at least 5 guys above him that on paper should have been in that final, but he made it.

    We can argue that a 3rd round is deserved for both the herring and mordovsky fight, but the Japanese judges look at the fight on the whole, and on that account alone theres no doubt he deserved both wins. He was never in real danger in the two rounds outside of his obvious gas tank, but by that time he had done enough to avoid that 3rd round. VS Cro cop, i knew he'd come undone, especially in a tournament where he was exhausted and apparently injured. Swick threw him to the wolves in some ways, but he's going to reach the next level after this.
     
  17. KOBA

    KOBA White Belt

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    Both are great prospects, minakov is the more promising one, I'm still not sold on Ngannou yet though. But at the same time none of them have faced a Cro cop calibre fighter yet, so it still remains to be seen how well they stack up to the big dogs. Well know more about Ngannou after his next fight.

    Minakov vs Amir would be insane.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2016
  18. FranOlivetto

    FranOlivetto Banned Banned

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    How do you see Ngannou vs Amir Aliakbari going on?
     
  19. KOBA

    KOBA White Belt

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    I think it all depends on how amirs striking fairs, I'm not sold on Ngannou yet, and he hasn't faced any legit guys. Honestly, I think at this moment, only the elite top 10 guys of the cro cop ilk will beat amir, amir could probably take ngannou, but minakov is a more interesting matchup.

    Amir, after 6 fights, has faced heath herring and cro cop, Ngannou hasn't even faced anybody of that ilk or experience yet, and minakovs biggest win is over cheik kongo, somebody I'm sure amit would probably rag doll. I still think that minnakov being the samba world champ would be great match for the greco world champ.
     
  20. FranOlivetto

    FranOlivetto Banned Banned

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    Yeah bro i think the same. Better match up is Amir vs Cain because they are both wrestling fighters
     

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