head shots vs body shots

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by c0r1nth14n, Sep 6, 2010.

  1. c0r1nth14n

    c0r1nth14n Blue Belt

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    So I've been working on body shots lately in my Muay Thai class, and the other day my coach told me to push more when I'm throwing body shots - as opposed to head shots, where he usually tells me to retract the punch quickly. It's a little hard to explain, but I hope that makes sense. I was wondering if anyone could explain the reason for that? I'd ask him, but the language barrier makes it hard. Thanks!
     
  2. Da Speeit

    Da Speeit CANCEROUS POSTER Platinum Member

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    The head is smaller target, and it also moves much quicker and more frequently than they body does.

    so if you put all of your weight into a punch to the head, whether it hits or not, for a short period of time, you will be off-balnace.

    witht bodyshots, as you throw your weight into it, the body doesnt move, so youre transferring all of that weight and power directly into the body whilst still holding your base.
     
  3. SAAMAG

    SAAMAG San Antonio Applied Martial Arts Group

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    The only time a punch is "pushed" in my experience is when you are doing it as a setup to knock someone into another punch. Otherwise punches are "popped".

    Pushing a punch doesn't increase the damage done.
     
  4. dtravis92

    dtravis92 Orange Belt

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    Dig to the body hard with your punches and snap to the head. Da Speeit explained why
     
  5. c0r1nth14n

    c0r1nth14n Blue Belt

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    Thanks! Vankuen, what do you mean by "popped"?
     
  6. SLanD3r

    SLanD3r White Belt

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    No one mentioned the other reasons:

    Skull is a lot harder than the body, barely needs any penetration to get a solid hit because its mainy just skin over bone.

    Body is soft, need to dig more to get through fat and muscle to get a solid connection.
     
  7. ambertch

    ambertch Purple Belt

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    No one mentioned it because those aren't the real reason, that's why.

    Nothing to do with the body being harder to hurt, it has all to do with the risk involved with committing to a body vs. head shot.

    Body shot = throwing your weight into it is less risk (harder for him to counter)
    head shot = throwing your weight into it is more risk (you miss you're fucked)
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2010
  8. Scrappy145

    Scrappy145 Yellow Belt

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    maybe in semi contact sports
    in real combat sports where you want to actually, you know, hurt the guy the object is to hit THROUGH the target.

    I remember Tyson's coach telling him to aim at the back of the opponents skull
    whenever you hit pads you dont try to tap the pads do you? no you try to hit through it
     
  9. SLanD3r

    SLanD3r White Belt

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    double posted by accident, see below
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2010
  10. SLanD3r

    SLanD3r White Belt

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    Amber, not saying that isn't the primary reason, just adding another one that nobody mentioned.

    If something has more cushion (i.e. fat), don't you agree that you would have to penetrate deeper in comparison to something that had less cushion? If so, it would be a concurrent reason why you would dig the body more.


    Here's where I got it from, let me know what you think about his explanation:

    It starts at about 4:05:

    YouTube - Punching Power for Boxing






    Regarding snappy punches. I always thought it was a way to generate power by concentrating all the force in a violent collision at the point of impact, because after impact there isn't any collision anymore and the rest of the power is devoted to pushing, is it not? Thoughts?

    Some dudes in another boxing forum was talking about this a bit:

    4th post down.

    Pushing punches - Boxing Forum
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2010
  11. SAAMAG

    SAAMAG San Antonio Applied Martial Arts Group

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    One of the best ways to describe what I'm talking about is: when you hit a heavy bag, imagine that there's an egg in the middle of it. What you want to do is break the shell of the egg without getting yolk on your hands.

    You can "penetrate" with a punch without pushing it. Aiming for the back of the head with your punch isn't "pushing", contrary to what some who replied seem to think.

    Pushing increases the duration of the collisiion and thus decreases impact force.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2010
  12. c0r1nth14n

    c0r1nth14n Blue Belt

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    Okay, that was what I was thinking I remembered from HS physics - duration decreasing the impact. And I like that word "popping". The only word I could think of was snapping, but that seems to imply a lack of actual power behind it. So, if I'm correct, the idea would be to punch through the target but without pushing?
     
  13. SAAMAG

    SAAMAG San Antonio Applied Martial Arts Group

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    Right...knockout power doesn't come from pushing. Executing a penetrating strike doesn't come from pushing. Both come from exploding into the target as quickly as possible, i.e accelerating the mass as much as you can within the distance given and offloading the force in the shortest duration possible.

    Pushing when punching is just meant to push the person into another punch in my experience...because what would cause more damage? A moving car hitting a static car? Or two cars moving accelerating towards each other and colliding?

    That's also why timing is important in striking because if you can intercept a movement with your strike, you've increased the effectiveness over just hitting them when they're static or moving away.
     
  14. casper1kebab

    casper1kebab Yellow Belt

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    qft
     
  15. chino0503

    chino0503 Black Belt

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    there's different type of punches... you dont ALWAY wanna punch thru the target. you wanna change your pace, and style of punching.

    theres a time for a nice stiff jab, theres a time for a snappy ones, theres a time for annoying pawing jabs. you gotta be versatile. being able to change paces is what sets up the big shots.

    so yeah.. i agree. you want to punch thru the target but not always. you gotta have crazy cardio to fight like that all the time. sometimes you gotta pitty pat, sometimes you gotta snap... set them power shots up.

    and ts. you wanna punch thru the body. elbows and shoulder behind the punch. a thump is the best sound you wanna hear... slapping sound is no good.
     
  16. c0r1nth14n

    c0r1nth14n Blue Belt

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    Thanks for the advice, guys! This has definitely clarified a few things for me. I'll have to work on popping.
     
  17. DS614

    DS614 Brown Belt

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    KO's result from banging the brain around inside their skull. You connect to the chin and their head snaps and their brain slams around, they fall over. You don't need a crap load of force, you just need to connect correctly and with speed to get that snap.

    Punching someone's body is different. You are aiming for the internal organs and have to drive your fist up into those organs.

    Bas Rutten has a really good explanation on the punch to the liver.




    Pushing punches sounds like arm punches.
     
  18. SAAMAG

    SAAMAG San Antonio Applied Martial Arts Group

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    Also very true. Different punches for different reasons.
     
  19. SAAMAG

    SAAMAG San Antonio Applied Martial Arts Group

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    If you try loading up on a lead hook--you increase the likelihood that it will be seen and countered or defended. I realize that what he shows is a secondary punch, but it got me thinking about how I go about setting up the body shots.

    I generally don't "load up" like that unless the load up happens as a combination with another punch. So what I do if I want to load it for a big left hook or shovel hook is I'll use the 1-2-3 or just 2-3; the jab allows for a good load up on the cross, which allows for a good load up on the left hook to head or body. I also keep my non-punching hand close to my chin.

    But different strokes for different folks.
     
  20. c0r1nth14n

    c0r1nth14n Blue Belt

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    Of course - how did I not think to look for Bas videos on body shots? Very helpful, although I also don't load up so much. Thanks!
     

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