Has the HW division evolved as a whole (last 10 years)?

I appreciate the effort but your stats are false.

Top heavyweight fight from 2004, both fighters 225 pounds.



Nogueira was ranked all those years, but was around 225 pounds all is Pride career, never over 240 like you wrote.


The top 4 heavyweights of the last decade, Fedor, Nogueria, Couture and Crocop were around 220 pounds, today 220 pounds heavyweights don't exist, this is a fact.



As usual Pride nerds on the rescue.



2 times heavyweight champ Frank Mir said that mma indeed has evolved, so let's accept it and move on.

For their first fight of 2004, the one that ended in a no contest, Nogueira weighed in at 240lbs and Fedor weighed in at 236lbs. (Tapology) But, yes, in their 3rd fight(the last of 2004) Nogueira weighed-in at 227lbs while Fedor weigh-in at 233lbs.

Also, your statement about Nog never weighing over 225lbs in Pride is also innaccurate. Other then the one I just linked you to, he weighed-in over 230lbs many times. He has also weighed in at 240+lbs multiple time. He weighed 240lbs at Pride 31, 245lbs at Pride Critical Countdown Absolute, and 242lbs at Pride Final Conflict Absolute.(Tapology)

Pride also did not do weigh-ins every fight, so it is impossible to know what the fighters weighed everytime. But given that Nogueira's UFC weigh-ins(I know it's after his physical decline) ranged from 230 to 246lbs and that most HWs(that don't cut) can fluctuate anywhere from 5 to 20lbs between fights, it is very possible that Nogueira fluctuated between 225lbs and 245lbs through out his entire career.

Also, if you take their recorded measurements and average all their career weigh-in results, Nogueira is virtually the same size as Werdum.

NOGUEIRA:
Height = 6'3"
Reach = 77"
Average Career Weigh-ins = 238lbs

WERDUM:
Height = 6'4"
Reach = 77"
Average Career Weigh-ins = 240lbs

So, Nogueira would fit in with Werdum as a mid-sized HW today.

I like Frank Mir. I just watched the last UFC Countdown and Mark Hunt, when asked about the Lewis fight, said something along the lines of, "These new HW guys today, they're not willing to put in the work and when it comes down to the deep end, they're not willing to go there." Point is, people say a lot shit. Doesn't mean it true.
 
For their first fight of 2004, the one that ended in a no contest, Nogueira weighed in at 240lbs and Fedor weighed in at 236lbs. (Tapology) But, yes, in their 3rd fight(the last of 2004) Nogueira weighed-in at 227lbs while Fedor weigh-in at 233lbs.

Also, your statement about Nog never weighing over 225lbs in Pride is also innaccurate. Other then the one I just linked you to, he weighed-in over 230lbs many times. He has also weighed in at 240+lbs multiple time. He weighed 240lbs at Pride 31, 245lbs at Pride Critical Countdown Absolute, and 242lbs at Pride Final Conflict Absolute.(Tapology)

Pride also did not do weigh-ins every fight, so it is impossible to know what the fighters weighed everytime. But given that Nogueira's UFC weigh-ins(I know it's after his physical decline) ranged from 230 to 246lbs and that most HWs(that don't cut) can fluctuate anywhere from 5 to 20lbs between fights, it is very possible that Nogueira fluctuated between 225lbs and 245lbs through out his entire career.

Also, if you take their recorded measurements and average all their career weigh-in results, Nogueira is virtually the same size as Werdum.

NOGUEIRA:
Height = 6'3"
Reach = 77"
Average Career Weigh-ins = 238lbs

WERDUM:
Height = 6'4"
Reach = 77"
Average Career Weigh-ins = 240lbs

So, Nogueira would fit in with Werdum as a mid-sized HW today.

I like Frank Mir. I just watched the last UFC Countdown and Mark Hunt, when asked about the Lewis fight, said something along the lines of, "These new HW guys today, they're not willing to put in the work and when it comes down to the deep end, they're not willing to go there." Point is, people say a lot shit. Doesn't mean it true.


This is the second Fedor fight, Nogueira still 225 pounds, your source is wrong, Nogueira was around 225 pounds most of his Pride career, a 225 pounds fighter today would be a light heavy.
Werdum has definitely a bigger frame than Nogueira and is at least 1 inch taller.


I could argue all day about "the evolution of mma", but one must be blind to not notice that.
 
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I appreciate the effort but your stats are false.

Top heavyweight fight from 2004, both fighters 225 pounds.



Nogueira was ranked all those years, but was around 225 pounds all is Pride career, never over 240 like you wrote.


The top 4 heavyweights of the last decade, Fedor, Nogueria, Couture and Crocop were around 220 pounds, today 220 pounds heavyweights don't exist, this is a fact.



As usual Pride nerds on the rescue.



2 times heavyweight champ Frank Mir said that mma indeed has evolved, so let's accept it and move on.



Damn savage ass post with FACTS!! End motherfucking thread.
 


This is the second Fedor fight, Nogueira still 225 pounds, your source is wrong, Nogueira was around 225 pounds most of his Pride career, a 225 pounds fighter today would be a light heavy.
Werdum has definitely a bigger frame than Nogueira and is at least 1 inch taller.


I could argue all day about "the evolution of mma", but one must be blind to not notice that.

Nog was absolutely 240 in many of his PRIDE fights. He even publicly said he wanted to be lighter vs Fedor to have the speed and cardio advantage. I watched his whole career. His weight fluctuated from fight to fight.

We have already established ITT that Heavyweights are not bigger now. They have always been about the same size. The skill level and grappling credentials are very low in this day and age. Other divisions have evolved but not Heavyweight. Back then, HW and LHW were the main attractions in the sport. UFC has too many divisions now to focus on HW the same way PRIDE did. They would rather sign, invest and promote a WMMA fighter with a 3-2 record than invest in the HW division.

If 40 year old Fabricio Werdum can be the 2nd best Heavyweight in the world in 2018 then a 25 year old Nog who had better boxing and a better chin would absolutely be elite today.
 


This is their second fight, Nogueira still 225 pounds, your source is wrong, Nogueira was around 225 pounds all his Pride career, today he would be a light heavy.
Werdum is definitely bigger than Nogueira and at least 1 inch taller.


I could argue all day about "the evolution of mma", but one must be blind to not notice that.

Your video just shows an announcer saying weights. Announcers misread that stuff all the time, Joe and Goldie make mistakes when reading off/announcing records, heights, weights, and reach every show. And as I said, his weight, like nearly all mid-sized HWs, fluctuated greatly throughout his career. Cain has weighed-in 230-250lbs(and is significantly shorter than Nog), Dos Santos has weighed-in 233-245lbs(and has same measurements as Nog), Overeem has weighed-in 240-263lbs(since bulking up, he weighed in the 220s when he first entered into HW), and Stipe has weighed-in 235-246lbs.

I gave you the official measurements for Werdum and Nog and they are very similar. So, if Nog is a small HW that should cut to LHW, then so are Werdum, Dos Santos, Cain, Overeem(who did just that early in his career), and Stipe and that's half the top HWs of today(and nearly all the elite ones).

I'm not saying there weren't undersized HWs from 2004-2010. Fedor, Cro Cop, and Couture were all undersized, just like Cain and Cormier are considered undersized today, but to act like they were the norm is ridiculous. They were revered for taking out the normal, bigger HW like Herring, Sylvia, Arlovski, Sergei, Schilts, Hunt, Aleks, Rizzo, Ricco, Gonzaga, and Barnett.

I agree, you have to be blind to not see that MMA as a whole has gotten better. But, I also think you have to be blind to watch Stipe vs. Ngannou or Hunt vs. Lewis and then watch Fedor vs. Nog or Cro Cop vs. Hunt and say, "Yep, those fighters are more skilled, technical, and well rounded than those older guys."
 
Of course it has evolved, what a silly question. They now have Reebok shorts.
 
Yes it has evolved all of the guys from ten years ago that are still around the top ten have all improved and become more skilled. Most on here will just try to make it like fighters can’t improve and only get worse and that even though mma is in its infancy it somehow peaked over a decade ago yet other sports that are well over 100 years old continue to improve and their athletes improve.
 
Your video just shows an announcer saying weights. Announcers misread that stuff all the time, Joe and Goldie make mistakes when reading off/announcing records, heights, weights, and reach every show. And as I said, his weight, like nearly all mid-sized HWs, fluctuated greatly throughout his career. Cain has weighed-in 230-250lbs(and is significantly shorter than Nog), Dos Santos has weighed-in 233-245lbs(and has same measurements as Nog), Overeem has weighed-in 240-263lbs(since bulking up, he weighed in the 220s when he first entered into HW), and Stipe has weighed-in 235-246lbs.

I gave you the official measurements for Werdum and Nog and they are very similar. So, if Nog is a small HW that should cut to LHW, then so are Werdum, Dos Santos, Cain, Overeem(who did just that early in his career), and Stipe and that's half the top HWs of today(and nearly all the elite ones).

I'm not saying there weren't undersized HWs from 2004-2010. Fedor, Cro Cop, and Couture were all undersized, just like Cain and Cormier are considered undersized today, but to act like they were the norm is ridiculous. They were revered for taking out the normal, bigger HW like Herring, Sylvia, Arlovski, Sergei, Schilts, Hunt, Aleks, Rizzo, Ricco, Gonzaga, and Barnett.

I agree, you have to be blind to not see that MMA as a whole has gotten better. But, I also think you have to be blind to watch Stipe vs. Ngannou or Hunt vs. Lewis and then watch Fedor vs. Nog or Cro Cop vs. Hunt and say, "Yep, those fighters are more skilled, technical, and well rounded than those older guys."
What amazing technique and skill did Cro Cop vs Hunt show? It was a lackluster fight with no action.
 
Not only have we already proved HWs have always been about the same size in this thread, but a LHW Daniel Cormier is about to fight for the UFC Heavyweight title. DC will come in at like 5'10 and probably 235.

DC and Cain are similar sizes to Fedor and Randy. All 4 guys were very technical too. They are the exceptions as we can see. Most of all the other ranked HWs were much bigger over the years.
 
Nog was absolutely 240 in many of his PRIDE fights. He even publicly said he wanted to be lighter vs Fedor to have the speed and cardio advantage. I watched his whole career. His weight fluctuated from fight to fight.

We have already established ITT that Heavyweights are not bigger now. They have always been about the same size. The skill level and grappling credentials are very low in this day and age. Other divisions have evolved but not Heavyweight. Back then, HW and LHW were the main attractions in the sport. UFC has too many divisions now to focus on HW the same way PRIDE did. They would rather sign, invest and promote a WMMA fighter with a 3-2 record than invest in the HW division.

If 40 year old Fabricio Werdum can be the 2nd best Heavyweight in the world in 2018 then a 25 year old Nog who had better boxing and a better chin would absolutely be elite today.
Nogueira was indeed bigger at the end of Pride, but most of his career he was in the 225-230 range.


You have not established nothing, a big part of the top heavyweights of 10 years ago could have easily made 205, and Pride middleweights (205) didn't cut weight.


As far as the division has not evolved, there was a time 190 pounds Dan Handerson was competitive against heavyweights like Nogueira

203 pounds Wanderlei was competitive against 275 pounds Hunt.
That's the proof that Wanderlei didn't cut weigh by the way.



Fedor was competitive against 200 pounds Arona, basically a small middleweight by today standards.
Arona himself didn't cut weight when fighting at 205.



98 kilos Crocop was competitive against Sakuraba




Today this guy is at 97 kilos (213 pounds) after having made 185, time has changed.
You can't really compare mma back than and today, it's actually unfair to the guys of the past, they had it rough.


 
Not only have we already proved HWs have always been about the same size in this thread, but a LHW Daniel Cormier is about to fight for the UFC Heavyweight title. DC will come in at like 5'10 and probably 235.

DC and Cain are similar sizes to Fedor and Randy. All 4 guys were very technical too. They are the exceptions as we can see. Most of all the other ranked HWs were much bigger over the years.
Cormier is the light heavy champ, he is fighting Miocic because he can make history and he is getting paid a lot of money.

When Cormier was fighting at heavyweight he was bigger than today





252 against Soa Palelei and 247 against Bigfoot, that's heavyweight size.

When Cormier was asked about fighting the winner of Ngannou and Miocic he said this

“That would take some thinking,” Cormier continued, “some talking and a real solid plan to try to get back to the type of weight that I would need to compete against those guys. Because, again, I’m not going in there to lose and say I gave it my best shot. If I go in there with Miocic or Ngannou, I’m going to win. That’s just who I am.

“So that would just be me and my team really coming up with a solid plan on how I’m going to get up to a healthy, strong, 235, 240 pounds to go and fight those dudes.”


Size is definitely a factor and Miocic has a big advantage over Cormier.
Cormier is not a natural heavyweight, that's not his best weight class.
 
Nogueira was indeed bigger at the end of Pride, but most of his career he was in the 225-230 range.


You have not established nothing, a big part of the top heavyweights of 10 years ago could have easily made 205, and Pride middleweights (205) didn't cut weight.


As far as the division has not evolved, there was a time 190 pounds Dan Handerson was competitive against heavyweights like Nogueira

203 pounds Wanderlei was competitive against 275 pounds Hunt.
That's the proof that Wanderlei didn't cut weigh by the way.



Fedor was competitive against 200 pounds Arona, basically a small middleweight by today standards.
Arona himself didn't cut weight when fighting at 205.



98 kilos Crocop was competitive against Sakuraba




Today this guy is at 97 kilos (213 pounds) after having made 185, time has changed.
You can't really compare mma back than and today, it's actually unfair to the guys of the past, they had it rough.



What is supposed to be your point? Is there proof that top level 200-215 lb guys cannot be competitive against modern HWs, or has weight cutting just become more popularized?

Didn't 210 lb Fortuna recently KO 260 lb Hamilton (neither is top tier, but that just evens things out)?

Of course HWs would be favored over the lighter guys, but they were favored back then too.
 
The HW and LHW divisions have regressed if anything.
 
Nogueira was indeed bigger at the end of Pride, but most of his career he was in the 225-230 range.


You have not established nothing, a big part of the top heavyweights of 10 years ago could have easily made 205, and Pride middleweights (205) didn't cut weight.


As far as the division has not evolved, there was a time 190 pounds Dan Handerson was competitive against heavyweights like Nogueira

203 pounds Wanderlei was competitive against 275 pounds Hunt.
That's the proof that Wanderlei didn't cut weigh by the way.



Fedor was competitive against 200 pounds Arona, basically a small middleweight by today standards.
Arona himself didn't cut weight when fighting at 205.



98 kilos Crocop was competitive against Sakuraba




Today this guy is at 97 kilos (213 pounds) after having made 185, time has changed.
You can't really compare mma back than and today, it's actually unfair to the guys of the past, they had it rough.



- First Hendo/Nog fight was a robbery. 2nd one Hendo was just escaping and surviving sub attempts until he got subbed. Hendo was awesome too. The division got way better after that. Fedor,CC, Barnett, Sergei, Werdum, Aleks came to PRIDE after that while Ricco, Randy, Sylvia, Mir, Arlovski were in the UFC. Hendo/Nog 2 was a little before the division really blew up.

- Wand vs Hunt? One of Hunt's first MMA fights. Wanderlei was in his prime and was a monster. Hunt's standup was deadly but was new to grappling while Wand was a black belt. The fight went the way it should have. Close fight.

- Fedor vs Arona? A big LHW vs a small HW? We are about to see a LHW DC fight for the UFC HW title. That was Fedor's 4th fight and Arona's 2nd fight I believe. They were both young. That was 2000. When they both got to PRIDE Arona fought at 205 while Fedor was a HW. Not thr first time that has ever happened? Especially because it was early in both of their careers?

- Cro Cop vs Sakuraba? That was one of CC's first MMA fights. What are you trying to prove? He obviously had not developed his great TDD just yet but it was a big fight at the biggest MMA event of all time. CC broke his face. What is your point?

- you just used a bunch of examples of dudes in their first few fights

- We are not talking about Borrachinhna and cutting weight. We are talking about HW. 185 and below have definitely evolved but not HW or LHW.
 
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What is supposed to be your point? Is there proof that top level 200-215 lb guys cannot be competitive against modern HWs, or has weight cutting just become more popularized?

Didn't 210 lb Fortuna recently KO 260 lb Hamilton (neither is top tier, but that just evens things out)?

Of course HWs would be favored over the lighter guys, but they were favored back then too.
It's quite self explanatory, there aren't heavyweights smaller than 230 today and the top 4 heavyweight of 10 years ago were all smaller than 230 at some point in their career.

Weight is an objective way to establish that heavyweight mma has changed in the last 10 years, because we could talk about skills, athleticism, game planning all day, nut huggers that want to believe that their favourite fighters from the past are still the best fighters that this young sport has seen are still going to argue that.
 
no, he didn't. he could barely kick above the waist in the UFC. it was his weapon of choice. also, his 2 decades of fighting - including one stretch of 22 fights in 3 years - took their tool, and when he went downhill, he did so faster than most.

and even though your opinion has been thoroughly debunked over the years, it will apparently never go away. arguing with you on this is like arguing with a new, young anti-vaxxer. so i'll just say i'm sorry you don't understand the fight game enough to see what is obvious, and have a good day.

<Huh2>

I did not know that. That's fucking crazy.
 
- First Hendo/Nog fight was a robbery. 2nd one Hendo was just escaping and surviving sub attempts until he got subbed. Hendo was awesome too. The division got way better after that. Fedor,CC, Barnett, Sergei, Werdum, Aleks came to PRIDE after that while Ricco, Randy, Sylvia, Mir, Arlovski were in the UFC. Hendo/Nog 2 was a little before the division really blew up.

- Wand vs Hunt? One of Hunt's first MMA fights. Wanderlei was in his prime and was a monster. Hunt's standup was deadly but was new to grappling while Wand was a black belt. The fight went the way it should have. Close fight.

- Fedor vs Arona? A big LHW vs a small HW? We are about to see a LHW DC fight for the UFC HW title. That was Fedor's 4th fight and Arona's 2nd fight I believe. They were both young. That was 2000. When they both got to PRIDE Arona fought at 205 while Fedor was a HW. Not thr first time that has ever happened? Especially because it was early in both of their careers?

- Cro Cop vs Sakuraba? That was one of CC's first MMA fights. What are you trying to prove? He obviously had not developed his great TDD just yet but it was a big fight at the biggest MMA event of all time. CC broke his face. What is your point?

- We are not talking about Borrachinhna and cutting weight. We are talking about HW. 185 and below habe definitely evolved but not HW or LHW.
Borrachina would have been a heavyweight 10 years ago, that's why i used him as an example.

Arona was 200 pounds against Fedor, how that's a big LHW?
Yes both were green, but that was a grappling match and both had a grappling background and was a robbery like the first Nogueira Henderson fight if you ask me.


Imagine a 200 pounds guy like that Arona or a 190 pounds guy like that Dan Hendo fighting against a Miocic, Ngannou, Overeem, Werdum, Velasquez, Volkov, ...
That wouldn't even be fair.
 
It's quite self explanatory, there aren't heavyweights smaller than 230 today and the top 4 heavyweight of 10 years ago were all smaller than 230 at some point in their career.

Weight is an objective way to establish that heavyweight mma has changed in the last 10 years, because we could talk about skills, athleticism, game planning all day, nut huggers that want to believe that their favourite fighters from the past are still the best fighters that this young sport has seen are still going to argue that.

The HWs have always been the same size. We already saw this in this thread:

So, I just kinda want to put a little wrench in the whole, "HWs are so much bigger today" thing. Since 2004, the average height has been 6'3" and the average weight has fluctuated between 245lbs & 253lbs(except 2007 243lbs).

Current Top 10: Rankings
1. Miocic 6'4" 246
2. Ngannou 6'4" 263
3. Overeem 6'4" 247
4. Werdum 6'4" 249
5. Cain 6'1" 242
6. Dos Santos 6'4" 245
7. Minakov 6'2" 260
8. Hunt 5'10" 265
9. Rothwell 6'4" 264
10. Barnett 6'3" 256

Avg. Height= 6'3"
Avg. Weight= 253


Rankings
1. Nogueira 6'3" 226
2. Couture 6'1" 225
3. Coleman 6'1" 235
4. Herring 6'4" 254
5. Rizzo 6'1" 235
6. Barnett 6'3" 243
7. Sperry 6'2" 231
8. Fujita 6'1" 245
9. Igor 5'8" 228
10. Schilt 6'11" 261

Avg. Height= 6'2"
Avg. Weight= 238

Rankings
1. Nogueira 6'3" 234
2. Barnett 6'3" 246
3. Rodriguez 6'4" 243
4. Fedor 5'11" 228
5. Sapp 6'5" 350
6. Couture 6'1" 227
7. Herring 6'4" 250
8. McGee 6'10" 264
9. Igor 5'8" 235
10. Rizzo 6'1" 246

Avg. Height= 6'3"
Avg. Weight= 252(-Sapp=241)

Rankings
1. Fedor 5'11" 233
2. Nogueira 6'3" 236
3. Cro Cop 6'2" 225
4. Barnett 6'3" 250
5. Sylvia 6'8" 262
6. Sapp 6'5" 356
7. Rodriguez 6'4" 246
8. Herring 6'4" 254
9. McGee 6'10" 265
10. Igor 5'8" 220

Avg. Height= 6'3"
Avg. Weight= 255(-Sapp=243)

Rankings
1. Fedor 5'11" 233
2. Nogueira 6'3" 240
3. Cro Cop 6'2" 228
4. Mir 6'3" 253
5. Sylvia 6'8" 263
6. Arlovski 6'4" 240
7. Barnett 6'3" 250
8. Sergei 6'4" 240
9. Herring 6'4" 247
10. Rizzo 6'1" 243

Avg. Height= 6'3"
Avg. Weight= 245

Rankings
1. Fedor 5'11" 233
2. Nogueira 6'3" 240
3. Hunt 5'10" 275
4. Cro Cop 6'2" 220
5. Barnett 6'3" 250
6. Mir 6'3" 253
7. Arlovski 6'4" 241
8. Sylvia 6'8" 264
9. Sergei 6'4" 244
10. Werdum 6'4" 242

Avg. Height= 6'3"
Avg. Weight= 246

Rankings
1. Fedor 5'11" 228
2. Nogueira 6'3" 242
3. Cro Cop 6'2" 221
4. Barnett 6'3" 258
5. Sylvia 6'8" 263
6. Hunt 5'10" 290
7. Arlovski 6'4" 240
8. Monson 5'10" 240
9. Vera 6'3" 231
10. Cruz 6'4" 236

Avg. Height= 6'3"
Avg. Weight= 245

Rankings
1. Fedor 5'11" 235
2. Couture 6'1" 229
3. Nogueira 6'3" 241
4. Sylvia 6'8" 261
5. Barnett 6'3" 258
6. Gonzaga 6'2" 252
7. Arlovski 6'4" 240
8. Werdum 6'4" 247
9. Kongo 6'4" 240
10. Cro Cop 6'2" 230

Avg. Height= 6'3"
Avg. Weight= 243

Rankings
1. Fedor 5'11" 230
2. Arlovski 6'4" 241
3. Barnett 6'3" 256
4. Mir 6'3" 251
5. Nogueira 6'3" 246
6. Lesnar 6'3" 265
7. Couture 6'1" 220
8. Sylvia 6'8" 265
9. Rothwell 6'4" 264
10. Overeem 6'4" 243

Avg. Height= 6'3"
Avg. Weight= 248

Rankings
1. Fedor 5'11" 230
2. Lesnar 6'3" 265
3. Mir 6'3" 264
4. Nogueira 6'3" 241
5. Rogers 6'6" 264
6. Barnett 6'3" 248
7. Arlovski 6'4" 244
8. Dos Santos 6'4" 236
9. Cain 6'1" 238
10. Carwin 6'2" 260

Avg. Height= 6'3"
Avg. Weight= 249

Rankings
1. Cain 6'1" 244
2. Lesnar 6'3" 265
3. Werdum 6'4" 240
4. Fedor 5'11" 229
5. Dos Santos 6'4" 240
6. Carwin 6'2" 265
7. Mir 6'3" 252
8. Overeem 6'4" 260
9. Nogueira 6'3" 233
10. Silva 6'4" 263

Avg. Height: 6'3"
Avg. Weight: 249

Rankings
1. Dos Santos 6'4" 239
2. Cain 6'1" 249
3. Overeem 6'4" 263
4. Werdum 6'4" 246
5. Lesnar 6'3" 265
6. Carwin 6'2" 254
7. Mir 6'3" 260
8. Nogueira 6'3" 240
9. Barnett 6'3" 261
10. Cormier 5'11" 247

Avg. Height: 6'3"
Avg. Weight: 252

Rankings
1. Cain 6'1" 240
2. Dos Santos 6'4" 239
3. Overeem 6'4" 263
4. Werdum 6'4" 246
5. Cormier 5'11" 238
6. Mir 6'3" 261
7. Nogueira 6'3" 243
8. Silva 6'4" 265
9. Barnett 6'3" 248
10. Russow 6'2" 248

Avg. Height: 6'3"
Avg. Weight: 249

Rankings
1. Cain 6'1" 241
2. Dos Santos 6'4" 240
3. Werdum 6'4" 242
4. Cormier 5'11" 224
5. Silva 6'4" 264
6. Barnett 6'3" 252
7. Mir 6'3" 248
8. Nogueira 6'3" 243
9. Browne 6'7" 242
10. Gonzaga 6'2" 257

Avg. Height: 6'3"
Avg. Weight: 245

Rankings
1. Cain 6'1" 241
2. Dos Santos 6'4" 242
3. Werdum 6'4" 232
4. Browne 6'7" 243
5. Hunt 5'10" 264
6. Miocic 6'4" 243
7. Arlovski 6'4" 248
8. Barnett 6'3" 252
9. Silva 6'4" 264
10. Nelson 6'0" 260

Avg. Height: 6'3"
Avg. Weight: 249

Rankings
1. Werdum 6'4" 236
2. Cain 6'1" 242
3. Overeem 6'4" 243
4. Dos Santos 6'4" 239
5. Miocic 6'4" 243
6. Arlovski 6'4" 238
7. Browne 6'7" 237
8. Rothwell 6'4" 265
9. Hunt 5'10" 265
10. Minakov 6'2" 251

Avg. Height: 6'3"
Avg. Weight: 246

Rankings
1. Miocic 6'4" 246
2. Werdum 6'4" 240
3. Cain 6'1" 243
4. Overeem 6'4" 249
5. Dos Santos 6'4" 241
6. Rothwell 6'4" 264
7. Barnett 6'3" 256
8. Arlovski 6'4" 238
9. Minakov 6'2" 258
10. Lewis 6'3" 265

Avg. Height: 6'3"
Avg. Weight: 250

The HWs of the 2000's were just as big and had higher grappling and striking credentials. They were all in their 20's or early 30's on average and had a lot more fights as well.

The top UFC's HWs today are either 35 to 44 years old and some very slow and broken down or they are undeveloped rookies with no prior combat sports training like Lewis and Ngannou.

There has been no investment in the UFC HW division. They asborbed PRIDE and then SF and now that all those stars are growing old they turn to desperate hype like saying Francis Nogroundgameou hits as hard as a car.
 
It's quite self explanatory, there aren't heavyweights smaller than 230 today and the top 4 heavyweight of 10 years ago were all smaller than 230 at some point in their career.

Weight is an objective way to establish that heavyweight mma has changed in the last 10 years, because we could talk about skills, athleticism, game planning all day, nut huggers that want to believe that their favourite fighters from the past are still the best fighters that this young sport has seen are still going to argue that.

So you don't think Jones, Cormier, Gus or Rumble would be successful at HW at all?

lol
 
The HWs have always been the same size. We already saw this in this thread:



The HWs of the 2000's were just as big and had higher grappling and striking credentials. They were all in their 20's or early 30's on average and had a lot more fights as well.

The top UFC's HWs today are either 35 to 44 years old and some very slow and broken down or they are undeveloped rookies with no prior combat sports training like Lewis and Ngannou.

There has been no investment in the UFC HW division. They asborbed PRIDE and and then SF and now that all those stars are growing old they turn to desperate hype like saying Francis Nogroundgameou hits as hard as a car.
His source isn't reliable, the same it's for you when you said Coleman was 250 pounds , Erickson was 320 pounds and stuff like that.

On average, the best heavyweights of the past were light heavyweights, and the big guys of the past weren't that good.

So you don't think Jones, Cormier, Gus or Rumble would be successful at HW at all?

lol
It depends what you mean with successful, Cormier was extremely successful.
But there is a reason those guys cut weight.
 
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