Has the good ol power double become too predictable in modern MMA?

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by flyingoctoplata, Dec 10, 2018.

  1. flyingoctoplata

    flyingoctoplata Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    Don't get me wrong, wrestling is still the best base of current UFC champions, but gone are the days where you can win fights with a good blast double. Seems like it's going the way of the armbar.

    Unless you got some freak Askren, or Khabib level chain wrestling or slick Dagestani cheatcode grapple/wresle fuck manuevers, you can't really depend on wrestling to win fights in modern MMA and you're going to have to have great striking and power to mix up with your wrestling like Woodley, TJ, or Cormier, who only really use their wrestling to press the pace with their striking unless they're up against noobs with no tdd.
     
  2. AimedWithV

    AimedWithV Wound in the Force

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    "The only way to stop a chain wrestler is to hurt him" - Tyron Woodley after Khabib fight.
     
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  3. Slatersan

    Slatersan Purple Belt

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    Not sure where you heard “american wrestling” relies on power doubles. You even mention ben askren. Ben askren is what american wrestling is.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2018
  4. AimedWithV

    AimedWithV Wound in the Force

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    The keyword in his quote is "chain"
     
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  5. flyingoctoplata

    flyingoctoplata Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    I mentioned Askren because he's the exception not the rule.
     
  6. DeathStroke

    DeathStroke Yellow Belt

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    It seems like you're making two separate points in your OP, I'll address them separately.

    First, power doubles are not obsolete in my opinion. Chad Mendes has a beautiful power double executed effectively. I believe the reason you don't see too many power doubles in the UFC currently is that a good power double requires explosiveness, flexibility, and speed. Which is why you see them more at lighter weights than the big boys. You also see less of them after USADA came around. The compact muscle freaks (perfect build for blast doubles) kind of disappeared with USADA.

    Secondly, you say that you can't depend on wrestling to win fights, well duh. It's what, 2018? It's been years since you've been able to depend on one discipline to win fights. That's why one trick ponies, no matter how good they are, crumble sooner or later. Usually once they do crumble, its fairly spectacular. See Rhonda Rousey. And McGregor to an extent. An unpopular opinion of mine is that Khabib is also a one trick pony, albeit extremely good at that one trick, but one trick nonetheless. He will look unbeatable until someone can consistently stop the takedown. I know that seems like a no brainer prediction, but when I see Khabib, I see Rousey 2.0.

    TLDR: Wrestling is still good but cross training is better.
     
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  7. Xuh

    Xuh Black Belt

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    How about from the horse's mouth:



    "There is nothing more American than a good blast double leg."

    <mma4>
     
  8. elwani

    elwani Instigate. Dominate. Annihilate.

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    You mean ass.
     
  9. moreorless87

    moreorless87 Disarming Posting

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    Which I think is why it often caused problems for a lot of MMA fighters, theres that pressure to be able to be able to exploit openings quickly and consistently. Its one thing to exchange with an opponent for 15 mins and to land well at some point, its another to be able to exploit half a dozen or so openings when they try and rush you.
     
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  10. NoSmilez

    NoSmilez Black Belt

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    I am waiting for the Askren threads that come out when he fights about how his wrestling is overrated since he doesn't really have a shot.
     
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  11. Threetrees

    Threetrees The Voice of Reason

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    The blast double has been obsolete in collegiate and Olympic wrestling for decades above about 190ish pounds.

    The best wrestlers in MMA who use the power double, still have a power series. The problem is a good power series comes from when your foot is right next to the other guys - not when you are an arms length away. If you're getting put on your back from a mile away it's because you suck, and far fewer people suck anymore.
     
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  12. AimedWithV

    AimedWithV Wound in the Force

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    Kos-Daley for example: Kos shoots, Daley in a textbook, perfect balanced sprawl!
    If only Kos would've given up on trying...

    Lawler, on the other hand, did exactly as Woodley said: made Kos pay for the takedown and finished him.
    That's why BTW I think Askren might struggle with him..
     
  13. Threetrees

    Threetrees The Voice of Reason

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    It's also worth mentioning that 90% of MMA fighters are fighting with a different foot forward than how they would wrestle
     
  14. Slick_36

    Slick_36 Born Again Primitive

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    Nothing may be more American than apple pie but that doesn't mean we don't eat other pies too. I personally would prefer to hit a single and swing my leg around like I'm trying to get a rubber guard on their leg. Was really effective for me, but I would have liked to have been better at doubles for clutch situations.
     
  15. moreorless87

    moreorless87 Disarming Posting

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    Over 3 rounds I think Lawler would definitely be one of the toughest matchups for him at WW, maybe over 5 Robbies cardio might start to become an issue as he typically needed to take rounds off vs Condit and Hendricks.

    You could argue I spose that the US environment isn't so friendly to the power counter fighter, you look at say Romerol/Whittaker 2 and in Pride I think Yoel clearly wins the decision.

    I think you could argue that really the "blast double" often matches up well with a power counter game, Woodley and Rashad obviously and before them Randleman did at least have the threat standing to provide a distraction.
     
  16. Xuh

    Xuh Black Belt

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    <{cruzshake}>

    If an 'American' shoots something other than a double leg, the only possible explanation is that they have some kind of immigrant parentage.
     
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