Has MMA devolved if Khabib is considered p4p best?

[Wicked_1]

It comes and goes in waves. Wrestling is dominating now, as it was when coleman,kerr etc were top guys. Then strikers got good enough to beat them, so they reigned a while , and so on. It's just at the wrestling era now. We just left the striking era so who knows how long it will last. All mma fighters are way more well rounded now than ever before. Gsp was a hybrid as was Fedor. He had great everything and ko power. He had no weaknesses in any area. A specialist that's good enough at the other styles can beat a well rounded guy that has no specialty.
Khabib is the best wrestler and control guy around by far. Not NCAA wrestling, and he doesnt have div 1 trophies, but his is still a mix of many wrestling styles that together make him the best. I see no one in the lw division that can beat him short of a huge lightning strike fluke like Serra/gsp level.

 

[ferrisjso]

It appears that the pendulum has swung once again. There was a time where pure BJJ reigned supreme and dominated. As MMA evolved, strikers became better grapplers and grapplers became better strikers.

GSP represented a hybrid breed that blended both well and it seemed that this was the prototype that the sport was producing.

Sure some specialists popped up here and there, like Demian Maia, but his inability to take down top competition somewhat exposed his weakness.

The randy couture or khabib style rooted in good control and just enough striking proficiency to open up for takedowns seems to be the best combination.

You would think the p4p best would be well versed everywhere.

Thoughts?

He isn't the UFC ranking voters have shown they'll make Jones 2nd if they have anything resembling a non crackpot argument for doing so. They had a guy who Jones beat twice above him for like a year or two. Embarrassing. Khabib and Marty(hypothetically) it's less bad cause they are undefeated in their current divisions but their resumes are a joke compared to Jones. You can't even throw up the inactivity thing(and DC was never much more active than Jones even during Jones break) cause these guys fight much more sporadically. You can just feel the salt pouring from their rankings(and apparently some of the people voting aren't even MMA journalists).

Tbh Khabib shouldn't even be top 2 cause Marty is undefeated in the tougher weight class(at least now)/has beaten more renowned opponents in that weight class. MM should also be higher though I know he's not on the UFC rankings it's not like his P4P status just evaporated cause he got traded. And seeing how close Henry fought him while I get putting Khabib over Henry also get grandfathering Henry into a higher spot.

 

[itheuser]

Primary grapplers will always dominate MMA.

Only the rules, and everyone learning BJJ, and wrestling has allowed striking to be relevant. Take away the grappling skill, and it's UFC I all over again.

 

[snackgod]

It appears that the pendulum has swung once again. There was a time where pure BJJ reigned supreme and dominated. As MMA evolved, strikers became better grapplers and grapplers became better strikers.

GSP represented a hybrid breed that blended both well and it seemed that this was the prototype that the sport was producing.

Sure some specialists popped up here and there, like Demian Maia, but his inability to take down top competition somewhat exposed his weakness.

The randy couture or khabib style rooted in good control and just enough striking proficiency to open up for takedowns seems to be the best combination.

You would think the p4p best would be well versed everywhere.

Thoughts?

yes cause jon jnoes uses peds so he clearly p4p in the ufc right now.

 

[itheuser]

It comes and goes in waves. Wrestling is dominating now, as it was when coleman,kerr etc were top guys. Then strikers got good enough to beat them, so they reigned a while , and so on. It's just at the wrestling era now. We just left the striking era so who knows how long it will last. All mma fighters are way more well rounded now than ever before. Gsp was a hybrid as was Fedor. He had great everything and ko power. He had no weaknesses in any area. A specialist that's good enough at the other styles can beat a well rounded guy that has no specialty.
Khabib is the best wrestler and control guy around by far. Not NCAA wrestling, and he doesnt have div 1 trophies, but his is still a mix of many wrestling styles that together make him the best. I see no one in the lw division that can beat him short of a huge lightning strike fluke like Serra/gsp level.

The never was a striking era. There was a more striking than before era.

Bieng a striking specialist doesn't mean much if you're grappling doesn't improve greatly; whereas a grappler can be deficient in striking, and still make it far. It's just the nature of physics. It's easier to close the distance than it is to maintain it.

 

[Evangelion]

I agree.

However as the sport evolves wouldnt one expect that the p4p best would be someone who is exceptional everywhere. The consummate fighter if you will? In 20 years will the p4p best be someone who is specialized in one aspect, uses good strategy and barely proficient in other areas.

There are only so many hours in a day. The more time you spend on one part of your game the less you spend on another.

Khabib is not barely proficient in all aspects of mma besides grappling. Hes excellent in the clinch, he's one of the best defensive strikers the sport has ever seen, he has excellent cardio, good power in his hands and mentally is very strong.

 

[Iron Nick]

MMA has definitely evolved.
Sure, wrestling-heavy fighters are dominating, but that's only because wrestling is such a valuable skill in MMA.
The "wrestlers" in today's MMA are also way more well rounded than back in the days.
Khabib has a great striking defense and basic, but solid offensive striking and good handspeed.
DC has good striking, especially boxing as well and is very good at mixing those things up.
Covington is not a power puncher, but is able to land great amounts of strikes and does technically good at boxing as well.
Cejudo is very fast, has good power and also has proven that his stand-up is really good, having KOed or TKOed half of his opponents including TJ Dillashaw and Marlon Moraes.
Yoel Romero has an insanely dangerous stand-up game as well, having finished opponents by flying-knees and other strikes in devastating fashion.
Kamaru Usman seems to be the most "one dimensional" fighter here, but from what i've seen his striking defense is quite good and he's got solid power as well.

 

[Wicked_1]

The never was a striking era. There was a more striking than before era.

Bieng a striking specialist doesn't mean much if you're grappling doesn't improve greatly; whereas a grappler can be deficient in striking, and still make it far. It's just the nature of physics. It's easier to close the distance than it is to maintain it.

I agree. I refer to a striking era, like when more champs were strikers , knowing that they also know other discipline. Thought that was pretty obvious. There are times or eras where fighters who refer to themselves as strikers were prevailing...like when anderson was king..we had gsp who would be considered a striker, jds, Aldo, dom..and prolly 1 or 2 wrestlers near the top...compared to an era when say Tito, coleman, randy, etc were all top 10 and there were only a few strikers in the top . Never was an all wrestler or all strikers. They are all mma guys. Now trained well in all disciplines they choose to train. Still a specialist like khabib is the top guy around. At one time right now we had dc,khabib,ccc,woodley/marty/bigmouth....,all with belt's. I would call that a wrestling era if it lasts a while, and it has. Strikers aren't beating them at this time.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

It appears that the pendulum has swung once again. There was a time where pure BJJ reigned supreme and dominated. As MMA evolved, strikers became better grapplers and grapplers became better strikers.

GSP represented a hybrid breed that blended both well and it seemed that this was the prototype that the sport was producing.

Sure some specialists popped up here and there, like Demian Maia, but his inability to take down top competition somewhat exposed his weakness.

The randy couture or khabib style rooted in good control and just enough striking proficiency to open up for takedowns seems to be the best combination.

You would think the p4p best would be well versed everywhere.

Thoughts?

No. The well-rounded jack of all trades fighter rarely stays at the top long. This has always been a myth IMO.

Most top fighters are specialists in one area, are comfortable in a second area but know just enough to neutralise the rest. The true, well rounded fighters are often in top 5 but never retain a title or even get to it. Think Rory.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

I honestly think he is behind Jones at the moment, but when he beats Tony and maybe Justin I could see it would be obvious.
As far as one dimensional, his wrestling and Judo are top notch, his submission game is excellent, nobody has out struck him and he seems to be very hard to hit. Sounds complete to me.

No,no. wtf.
Khabib is the perfect example of the dominant specialist. He is not complete and does not need to.

 

[Thy]

But didn't he drop conor and out strike him? and doesn't he out grapple and sub everyone despite their wrestling or bjj credentials? Doesn't that make him well rounded?

If anything, mma has evolved again to where u gotta be really good at everything and unique to compete these days or you'll be predictable even if you're the best at something like the wrestler guy masvidal recently knee ko'd, or conor getting subbed a few times, or that gymnast dude with the backflips that just lost to the irish guy.

 

[Dchesron]

Khabib's footwork seems to be very good and underrated. How he circle's around the oppenent, moving forward, moving backward and never gets his back to the fence while being able to do the opposite to his oppenent.
These this may be more valuable in the standup than actual striking especially for his game.

These aren't usual skill for a wrestler/grappler.
Seems like an evolution to me

 

[GBJohn]

Wrestling always has been and always will be the trump card. The better wrestler generally dictates where the fight takes place, thus frequently neutralizing the opponent’s greatest skill. One dimensional but dominant wrestlers will never disappear from MMA unless the rules are changed dramatically.

This is not to say wrestling alone will make a fighter dominant, but with awesome wrestling, they can have a great deal of success while being barely competent in other disciplines.

 

[The Legendary Scarface]

If you think about it,
Khabib's not a "specialist"

He's a "well rounded specialist" AKA can dominate in one aspect and is good everywhere else.

That's the new prototype.
Another example actually might be Adesanya.

Thats what we're moving towards. Gotta be solid everywhere but still "pick a niche and get rich" dawg

 

[RightToBareKnuckles]

Just compare Khabib and Askren to understand that Khabib is more well rounded than you think, TS.
He has a good foot work, understand really well distance management, and really hard to hit.

great point, foot work and distance control is an area where striking and grappling overlap to some degree.

to TS point, i don't think MMA has devolved at all, i'd bet that in general the better grapplers will always win more. it's easier to close the distance and start grappling someone than it is to find that chin or liver shot. just don't post the Masvidal flying knee

 

[Jonny Ninja]

It appears that the pendulum has swung once again. There was a time where pure BJJ reigned supreme and dominated. As MMA evolved, strikers became better grapplers and grapplers became better strikers.

GSP represented a hybrid breed that blended both well and it seemed that this was the prototype that the sport was producing.

Sure some specialists popped up here and there, like Demian Maia, but his inability to take down top competition somewhat exposed his weakness.

The randy couture or khabib style rooted in good control and just enough striking proficiency to open up for takedowns seems to be the best combination.

You would think the p4p best would be well versed everywhere.

Thoughts?

Khabib is pretty much unique nowadays but he is still not a one trick pony. He has BJJ and striking but his wrestling/pressure style is so dominant that there is no need to utylise everything. He an incredible fighter

McGregor is a better example imo. Definitely a one trick pony; fantastic striker, excellent TDD and distance control. Hes fcked if he cant fight his game.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

There will always be specialists at the top in MMA, I don't think it will ever go away. There will always be some guys that are way more skilled in wrestling, BJJ or striking that the vast majority of their opponents.

He's not one dimensional though nor are most modern day specialists, they are almost all pretty well rounded they are just much better in a specific area than their opponents like Izzy at MW.

 

[LastingEffect]

I love how its super mods post and everybody just bashing him.

He speaks the truth.

 

[VVarhead]

Strikers became 'better' when UFC fired the likes of Phil Davis, Jon Fitch, Jake Shields, Yushin Okami, Jared Rosholt, and Ryan Bader for no other reason than they were boring -- as well as stopped hiring anyone who was like them.

Don't forget Bendo

 

[TheLastEmperorReurns]

only dumbasses who never turained think the whole "Hory Macdonald started MMA as a kid" type of fighters were gonna flood the game.