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Has BJJ Stopped evolving for MMA?
- Thread starter dmwalking
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We can all blame it on all the modern BJJ hipsters for not wanting to play the old school game of takedown/throw, pass, submit. All they want to do now a days is flop on their ass, butt scooting, spinning upside down with that lame berimbolo crap, pulling pants, wearing crappy gis that's overpriced such as that Shoyoroll garbage, eating acai, etc.
Modern BJJ hipsters is what's killing BJJ. Old school is the best school.
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I guess it depends, the biggest issue with BJJ is the cultural split you don't see in most other martial arts.
For a long time, BJJ was synonymous with MMA. However now BJJ is its very own separate style. BJJ compared to the other "big 3" (Boxing, Wrestling, Muay Thai) almost developed in reverse, in that it started off very MMA centric and then developed and adapted into a sport specific art afterwards. Contrast this to wrestling, which started off as a sport centric style which was adapted to be used in MMA.
So you get this cultural split where half the BJJ community wants to have a fighting/MMA focused style of BJJ, where as the other half wants to say fuck it and train to win BJJ competitions. So this leads to an interesting question, just who should be evolving BJJ for MMA? Should the whole community be responsible for something that only part of the community care about?
Imo the people responsible for evolving BJJ for MMA, should be the MMA community. They're the ones who would benefit from the advancements, which often have little relevance in modern sport Jiu-Jitsu. To really notice how pronounced this "cultural split" is, go on to wrestling message boards and see how many people slam Russian ties as leaving you exposed to strikes for example. The idea of slamming a guy like Floyd Mayweather for not advancing "MMA Boxing" would be ridiculous, yet similar things happen within the BJJ community all the time.
For a long time, BJJ was synonymous with MMA. However now BJJ is its very own separate style. BJJ compared to the other "big 3" (Boxing, Wrestling, Muay Thai) almost developed in reverse, in that it started off very MMA centric and then developed and adapted into a sport specific art afterwards. Contrast this to wrestling, which started off as a sport centric style which was adapted to be used in MMA.
So you get this cultural split where half the BJJ community wants to have a fighting/MMA focused style of BJJ, where as the other half wants to say fuck it and train to win BJJ competitions. So this leads to an interesting question, just who should be evolving BJJ for MMA? Should the whole community be responsible for something that only part of the community care about?
Imo the people responsible for evolving BJJ for MMA, should be the MMA community. They're the ones who would benefit from the advancements, which often have little relevance in modern sport Jiu-Jitsu. To really notice how pronounced this "cultural split" is, go on to wrestling message boards and see how many people slam Russian ties as leaving you exposed to strikes for example. The idea of slamming a guy like Floyd Mayweather for not advancing "MMA Boxing" would be ridiculous, yet similar things happen within the BJJ community all the time.
Not sure I follow. Go to any high school, college or olympic wrestling program and the focus will be 100% on wrestling not MMA. Likewise, go to Thailand and go to a Muay Thai camp and the focus is on Muay Thai not MMA. If anything, most BJJ schools have striking/kickboxing classes offered on the side, maybe even full on MMA classes.
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http://fightnomics.com/category/blog/ufc-fight-ended-2015-graph/
"Out of 244 fights that didn’t make it to the final bell, 154 of those were due to KO, TKO, or doctor stoppage due to legally inflicted damage. That T/KO/Stoppage rate accounted for 33% of 2015 fights, up slightly from 30% in 2014.
An additional 90 times a fighter was forced to submit due to a choke or lock, or required a referee to intervene when they were no longer able to do to so. The “tap, snap, or nap” scenario played out in 19% of all UFC fights last year, exactly in line with 2014."
Not even 20% of the fights ended with submissions in 2014 and 2015.
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My chart showed them about the same thru the 155 weight class. For fights over a longer time period.
Based on your chart, submissions are on the decline.
-T
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Read the rest of his post, he breaks it down very well, like he said, half the bjj schools focus on mma, half focus on sport (roughly)
How many people on here say "I don't care about self defense or MMA, I just wanna train sport". lol
But then they make fun of TKD and Aikido guys like they are Royce Gracie but are afraid to do takedowns and would squirm helplessly if someone put them in a standing bear hug.
90% of these people have never been in a real fight.
Most of them bank on never encountering a trained fighter when there's more of us than ever walking around.
But then they make fun of TKD and Aikido guys like they are Royce Gracie but are afraid to do takedowns and would squirm helplessly if someone put them in a standing bear hug.
90% of these people have never been in a real fight.
Most of them bank on never encountering a trained fighter when there's more of us than ever walking around.
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Many people say: I just want to train sport.
We still make fun of Aikido, and no blue belt that I have ever seen will not know how to slam his way out of a standing bear hug.
90% of any people, not just us, have never been in a real fight.
I do not know any person outside of the martial arts community in which I participate that is a trained fighter.
When I first started BJJ in 1994, BJJ was all about learning an art that could help you in a street fight. No gloves, no rounds, no referee. MMA came afterward. In my opinion, gloves change the whole dynamic of BJJ in MMA. Without gloves, you would see a fraction of the punching you currently see. You would also see better grappling.
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I've been saying that part about BJJ guys in this forum making fun of TKD/Karate guys who just do their art as a sport (Olympic TKD, WKF Karate point comps etc). Then no BJJ guy here ever gets called out when they say "I only do BJJ for sport, I didn't learn it to fight" or the endlessly long discussions about rules, formats, point values, etc.
It just seems that one part of the discussion to me is rather hypocritical.
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Or they will call you a liar and belittle you for suggesting not enough bjj guys are learning takedowns anymore or that there are things from other arts that still have things to offer to bjj. Whether it's the approach to certain positions or certain techniques.
The dichotomy is fascinating and I'm trying to teach myself not to get too emotionally sucked into these threads. Thankfully I found a gym that does nogi 2 or more times a week, depending on competitions coming up, and serious wrestling and leglocks, it's been fun
Kron schooling a bunch of scrubs from Japan should not be heralded as a return of BJJ to MMA
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yeah most the time I just skip it and avoid the discussion completely regarding the part of your post I bolded.
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On Sherdog, any Martial Art is just as good as its last fight
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?
The gloves aren't boxing type gloves where attacks are restricted. They're grappling gloves. Sure, they're somewhat more bulkier than a regular fist, but its not to the point where nearly all aspects are negated because of it.
BJJ is different then and now, back then most didn't know much about the system and didn't have much of a defense against it. Today, nearly all practitioners and fighters have the basics down. The knowledge of BJJ is alot more widespread than 2 decades ago.
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Yes. Nobody throws punches in street fights. Ever. Your hand would explode on impact.
And a lot of people break their hands throwing punches in street fights. There were broken hands in UFC 1. Even professional boxers break their hands when they throw a punch without gloves. Take away the gloves, and you will see a DRAMATIC drop in the number of punches thrown and the types of punches thrown. You will see less hook punches and wild haymaker style punches. Bare fists and hard heads do not mix well.
I have grappled in MMA gloves. It is like trying to swim for time wearing levis and tennis shoes.
I have grappled in MMA gloves. It is like trying to swim for time wearing levis and tennis shoes.
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Want to make BJJ relevant in MMA? Simple, really. Make MMA fights adhere to the definition of Mixed Martial Arts.
Hammer fisting an opponent on the mat? That's brawling, not a MA.
Wrestling? Not a martial art.
I watched UFC when it first started... it's a different sport today. But to be honest, fans like to see knockouts vs submisdoons. And the rules and equipment changed to favor striking.
Maybe we should call it BAMA fir Brawling And Martial Arts.
-T
Hammer fisting an opponent on the mat? That's brawling, not a MA.
Wrestling? Not a martial art.
I watched UFC when it first started... it's a different sport today. But to be honest, fans like to see knockouts vs submisdoons. And the rules and equipment changed to favor striking.
Maybe we should call it BAMA fir Brawling And Martial Arts.
-T
