Has BJJ Stopped evolving for MMA?

[TehGwarch]

Ahhh now who's misconstruing who...my point is that if you had gone with high level wrestlers...that you didn't massively outweigh...you wouldn't be saying that wrestling only works with brute strength or having amazing cardio...but hey I beat blue belts when I started bjj so that automatically means bjj is overrated..just taking your logic to its conclusion

Apparently there's no wrestler high level enough in my area to give me too many problems.

Wrestlers come in all the time, BJJ is pretty popular with people who wrestle or used to.

Like I said, I haven't seen anything amazing from these guys in the UFC, nothing I haven't seen before, doubles and singles are not hard to defend.

 

[TehGwarch]

So you'd match up say George Roop against Cain because they're the same height? Or in boxing, Thomas Hearns (who somehow lost to a much shorter Hagler) against Joe Louis (or Joe Frazier or Mike Tyson)?

For that matter, shouldn't Struve and Semmy Schilt have been unbeatable given their height advantages?

I can see your point but the shorter guy needs so much more skill to win and this is MMA, legs matter too.

I'm also not sure about those fighters eye poking prowess, how it stacks up, etc.

 

[jcandoitbig]

Apparently there's no wrestler high level enough in my area to give me too many problems.

Wrestlers come in all the time, BJJ is pretty popular with people who wrestle or used to.

Like I said, I haven't seen anything amazing from these guys in the UFC, nothing I haven't seen before, doubles and singles are not hard to defend.

lolz, have you ever sparred mma? things change when strikes are involved. and yea, big fish in a small pond syndrome. where do you live? come to socal and train and i bet you wouldn't have the same opinion

 

[TehGwarch]

I do not think it's easy yo get an underhook on Hendricks against the cage. GSP couldn't even get an underhook consistently iirc.

Whizzer is the best you're going to get a lot of the time and there's plenty to work with from there.

It's good facing the cage, not good with your back to the cage.

Gus managed to do it, it's that whole ounce of prevention thing.

 

[TehGwarch]

lolz, have you ever sparred mma? things change when strikes are involved. and yea, big fish in a small pond syndrome. where do you live? come to socal and train and i bet you wouldn't have the same opinion

Yes, I love MMA sparring. I'm worried about my striking, my grappling but my TDD, not really.

I'll just put it this way, I don't spend much time on the ground unless I want to. lol

Kickboxers are now spending the majority of their fights on their feet against wrestlers. Gus, Wonderboy, Conor, etc.

You had a nice run but it's over.

I'll just stay out of socal and I'm golden. lol

 

[jcandoitbig]

Yes, I love MMA sparring.

I'll just put it this way, I don't spend any time on the ground lol

Kickboxers are now spending fights on their feet against decorated wrestlers.

You had a nice run but it's over.

haha then you've clearly never sparred with a good wrestler, JohnSouth.

 

[TehGwarch]

haha then you've clearly never sparred with a good wrestler, JohnSouth.

Perhaps not.,maybe I never will.

No true scotsman fallacy....again

Wonderboy vs Hendricks happened bro, it did.

Is that PeterNorths impotent little brother?

 

[Gambledub]

Kickboxers are now spending the majority of their fights on their feet against wrestlers. Gus, Wonderboy, Conor, etc

You had a nice run but it's over.

Current and previous champs

HW: Werdum, Velazquez (BJJ, Wrestling)
LHW: Cormier, Jones (Wrestling x 2)
MW: Rockhold, Weidman (BJJ, Wrestling)
WW: Lawler, Hendricks (Wrestling/MMA, Wrestling)
LW: RDA, Pettis (BJJ, TKD)
FW: McGregor, Aldo (Boxing/MMA, BJJ)
BW: Cruz, Dillashaw (Wrestling x 2)
FLW: DJ (Wrestling)
WBW: Holm, Rousey (Boxing/Kickboxing, Judo)
WSW: Joanna, Esparza (Muay Thai, Wrestling/BJJ)

So 19 all up, 14 with strictly grappling backgrounds, a further 2 with arguable MMA backgrounds. 3 or arguably 4 champs with pure striking backgrounds.

Seems like the run isn't quite over to me. If these grapplers have such "horrible technique" does that mean the strikers have way worse technique, seeing as they must be getting outstruck by a bunch of grapplers to not be winning as many titles?

 

[number9dream]

Perhaps not.,maybe I never will.

No true scotsman fallacy....again

Wonderboy vs Hendricks happened bro, it did.

Is that PeterNorths impotent little brother?

Khabib vs everyone he's ever faced (yeah I know he's not a pure wrestler). Mendes took McGregor down how many times? DC? Cain?

Seriously, wrestling is one of the fundamental skills of MMA and will remain that way forever. It's just a key component of fighting....

Crocop vs Coleman also happened, I guess wrestling died 12 years ago? Oh, wait, no it didn't - just like striking, bjj, etc etc etc, it's still as relevant as ever. It may have been overrated in the past because of how bad peoples defense was against it, but that doesn't mean it's somehow irrelevant now. It's just not an automatic win.

 

[jack36767]

Khabib vs everyone he's ever faced (yeah I know he's not a pure wrestler). Mendes took McGregor down how many times? DC? Cain?

Seriously, wrestling is one of the fundamental skills of MMA and will remain that way forever. It's just a key component of fighting....

Crocop vs Coleman also happened, I guess wrestling died 12 years ago? Oh, wait, no it didn't - just like striking, bjj, etc etc etc, it's still as relevant as ever. It may have been overrated in the past because of how bad peoples defense was against it, but that doesn't mean it's somehow irrelevant now. It's just not an automatic win.

That's too much common sense for him him. He keeps trying to say it's "a scotsmans fallacy" to say it's obvious he's never faced good wrestlers...then says he doesn't care about beating actually good wrestlers because he's a "hobbyist", hes also trying to say that because "he" is good at throwing "other hobbyists and high school wrestlers" that they aren't used in mma enough.. and because of two fights...wrestling doesn't work anymore

 

[jack36767]

Perhaps not.,maybe I never will.

No true scotsman fallacy....again

Wonderboy vs Hendricks happened bro, it did.

Is that PeterNorths impotent little brother?

Ahhh because Wonderboy spent a couple years working with an Olympic wrestler and had a good fight...wrestling doesn't work. Got it. And saying that doubles and singles are easy to defend because you haven't gone against anyone high level is like me saying that I can just slam my way out of every triangle

So stop using the "scotsmans fallacy"...I'd I was saying bjj sucks you would automatically say I obviously haven't rolled with any brown or purple belts...and the type of wrestlers you've faced are not anywhere close to the level of the wrestlers in the ufc...

 

[jack36767]

Khabib vs everyone he's ever faced (yeah I know he's not a pure wrestler). Mendes took McGregor down how many times? DC? Cain?

Seriously, wrestling is one of the fundamental skills of MMA and will remain that way forever. It's just a key component of fighting....

Crocop vs Coleman also happened, I guess wrestling died 12 years ago? Oh, wait, no it didn't - just like striking, bjj, etc etc etc, it's still as relevant as ever. It may have been overrated in the past because of how bad peoples defense was against it, but that doesn't mean it's somehow irrelevant now. It's just not an automatic win.

His arguments are part of something that you see every 6 months to a year... there's either a new product (Kimura Trap) or a fight where people try to use as an excuse not to learn grappling in general...or just wrestling...or just bjj...

They try to say because another high level fighter used a technique against another high level fighter in a fight....it automatically means "bjj/wrestling doesn't work anymore"....

Like TehGwarch is trying to say because of the wonderboy fight "wrestling doesn't work" despite the fact everyone said that when Machida was first in the UFC that wrestling doesn't work anymore....then Weidman, Romero, and Rockhold all used wrestling and the threat of wrestling to beat him

It's so retarded

 

[crazyjames1233]

I dont see it that way. To me mma is the next stage of bjj evolution. No art can evolve unless its able to adapt and assimilate other forms of combat. Jacare is a good example of evolved bjj. He has a great ground game but developed solid striking and wrestling along with good conditioning. Same with Werdum.

 

[TehGwarch]

Ahhh because Wonderboy spent a couple years working with an Olympic wrestler and had a good fight...wrestling doesn't work. Got it. And saying that doubles and singles are easy to defend because you haven't gone against anyone high level is like me saying that I can just slam my way out of every triangle

So stop using the "scotsmans fallacy"...I'd I was saying bjj sucks you would automatically say I obviously haven't rolled with any brown or purple belts...and the type of wrestlers you've faced are not anywhere close to the level of the wrestlers in the ufc...

Wrestling can work, but Wonderboy and Holly Holm just learned the defenses...that's all they need to keep kickboxing.

BJJ does suck, most of these guys can't fight if they only train BJJ. Everything sucks by itself, which is exactly my point. Get some Judo knowledge, cross train and quit making excuses.

You don't see any more Gracie challenges, typical BJJ hipster belt don't want to get punched and can't handle striking and can't take a fall on soft mats. Disgraceful.

They need MMA for that, which leads me back to my point. Every martial art "sucks" individually. Boxing sucks every bit as bad as TKD but with something else they're both good.

Stop trying to grab a guy's legs when you're in a clinch, don't punch a guy laying flat on yo back son, use martial arts for what they are intended for.

 

[TehGwarch]

That's too much common sense for him him. He keeps trying to say it's "a scotsmans fallacy" to say it's obvious he's never faced good wrestlers...then says he doesn't care about beating actually good wrestlers because he's a "hobbyist", hes also trying to say that because "he" is good at throwing "other hobbyists and high school wrestlers" that they aren't used in mma enough.. and because of two fights...wrestling doesn't work anymore

Don't bother talking to him, he can't help you.

 

[TehGwarch]

Current and previous champs

HW: Werdum, Velazquez (BJJ, Wrestling)
LHW: Cormier, Jones (Wrestling x 2)
MW: Rockhold, Weidman (BJJ, Wrestling)
WW: Lawler, Hendricks (Wrestling/MMA, Wrestling)
LW: RDA, Pettis (BJJ, TKD)
FW: McGregor, Aldo (Boxing/MMA, BJJ)
BW: Cruz, Dillashaw (Wrestling x 2)
FLW: DJ (Wrestling)
WBW: Holm, Rousey (Boxing/Kickboxing, Judo)
WSW: Joanna, Esparza (Muay Thai, Wrestling/BJJ)

So 19 all up, 14 with strictly grappling backgrounds, a further 2 with arguable MMA backgrounds. 3 or arguably 4 champs with pure striking backgrounds.

Seems like the run isn't quite over to me. If these grapplers have such "horrible technique" does that mean the strikers have way worse technique, seeing as they must be getting outstruck by a bunch of grapplers to not be winning as many titles?

Lawler wins against Hendricks? That was two wrestlers? Lawler is a brawler, hey that rhymes.

Next you'll tell me Weidman tapped out Silva because he's a wrestler. All striking, won with Muay Thai. lol

Chuck Liddel, another successful "wrestler"...lol

Cormier vs Jones was a good illustration. The superior wrestler didn't win, Cormier's inside striking a la Tyson was pretty fucking good though. Jones barely got the better of Cormier even with the insane reach advantage. Just shows how good Cormier is.

Cormier should have not bothered with the takedowns, it didn't work. More striking buddy.

A grappling "background" is a good thing. Making it your primary strategy, not as good.

 

[TehGwarch]

Khabib vs everyone he's ever faced (yeah I know he's not a pure wrestler). Mendes took McGregor down how many times? DC? Cain?

Seriously, wrestling is one of the fundamental skills of MMA and will remain that way forever. It's just a key component of fighting....

Crocop vs Coleman also happened, I guess wrestling died 12 years ago? Oh, wait, no it didn't - just like striking, bjj, etc etc etc, it's still as relevant as ever. It may have been overrated in the past because of how bad peoples defense was against it, but that doesn't mean it's somehow irrelevant now. It's just not an automatic win.

Haven't seen all of these fights so I won't comment on all of them.

But you use Mendes vs Conor to show your point?

Mendes couldn't do anything with those takedowns, Conor knocked him out. lol

 

[These Two Hands]

Haven't seen all of these fights so I won't comment on all of them.

But you use Mendes vs Conor to show your point?

Mendes couldn't do anything with those takedowns, Conor knocked him out. lol

Isn't Conor a brown belt in BJJ?

 

[jack36767]

Don't bother talking to him, he can't help you.

Way to not address what it actually said...and wasn't asking him for help

 

[jack36767]

Lawler wins against Hendricks? That was two wrestlers? Lawler is a brawler, hey that rhymes.

Next you'll tell me Weidman tapped out Silva because he's a wrestler. All striking, won with Muay Thai. lol

Chuck Liddel, another successful "wrestler"...lol

Cormier vs Jones was a good illustration. The superior wrestler didn't win, Cormier's inside striking a la Tyson was pretty fucking good though. Jones barely got the better of Cormier even with the insane reach advantage. Just shows how good Cormier is.

Cormier should have not bothered with the takedowns, it didn't work. More striking buddy.

A grappling "background" is a good thing. Making it your primary strategy, not as good.

Weidman knocked out Silva because he had taken down and beaten the shit out of Silva before almost submitting him in the first round...Silva was doing those antics to goad Weidman into a mistake after that

Liddell used his wrestling to keep fights standing and escape back control....you obviously have such an experienced eye watching fighting