Hardy landed first, Condit won b/c of FORM and Jackson

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by RUkickboxer, Oct 18, 2010.

  1. RUkickboxer

    RUkickboxer Yellow Belt

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    [​IMG]

    Watch Condit's hand, then hardy's. This is what good coaching does for a fighter.

    Condit: hips turn perfectly, leading the torso. This creates a whip-crack effect (imagining the whip's handle is the leg, through psoas, abs, lats, pecs, delts and finally BAM, biceps catch all of that momentum).
    -Hand is vertical.
    -He didn't get his hand back to his face. Big risk. But he stayed in the pocket and used good form.

    Hardy's punch is WEAK, even though he actually lands HIS hook first. I know in real-time on the GIF it looks fast, but the power he needed would have come from his feet and elbow. Look at his feet. During the exchange, they get close together. He quits turning his hips. His hand is horizontal instead of vertical. And he can't bend the elbow to generate the "hook" motion, because he is using all pecs/delts to throw the hook.
     
  2. facedancer

    facedancer Warning: ***hole

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    Condit knew what he was doing. Hardy had thrown the same punch several times prior. He got timed, and then he got dropped.

    The only thing he didn't do was keep his right up.
     
  3. KeyboardFighter

    KeyboardFighter Green Belt

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    To me it just looks like Condit is more accurate in that exchange. Hardy lands just beneath the chin while Condit is right on the button.
     
  4. RUkickboxer

    RUkickboxer Yellow Belt

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    Condit throws a jab because he sees that every time Hardy counters, he does it with the left hook, and he is expecting to connect with the big right while Hardy's lead hand is throwing.

    Hardy is quick though, he pulls it back and tries to counter with the overhand right (all muscle memory and pre-thought strategy). They both connect with a glancing right, nothing major,

    but here is where the form comes in... They both keep their right shoulder high and move their head left to parry the cross. But look at Condit's Angle... perfect. When CONDIT parry's, he moves 45deg setting up to Hardy's blind side. Not left, but left and in. He gets clipped in the shoulder... Hardy gets clipped in the midline below the chin.

    From there it is the fight ender. Carlos has a good base and is in a better position to come in from Hardy's peripheral vision. Boxing 101.

    And people thing GSP couldn't have done that??? Bollocks!
     
  5. GangstaBoogie

    GangstaBoogie Purple Belt

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    Yeah. Hardy's punch actually lands on the neck where Condit's punch lands perfectly. I would say it had more to do with that than anything about the punch being horizontal vs vertical.
     
  6. ArlovskiFang

    ArlovskiFang The Retirer

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    Hardy's punch was so fucking ugly looking. It was longer so it had less torque, and he hit with the side of his hand instead of with his knuckles. Fuck man.
     
  7. dropshot001

    dropshot001 Red Belt

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    condit placed the punch better
     
  8. Slippyj***

    Slippyj*** Purple Belt

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    Better Technique but equally bad defence....where's the right hand!?
     
  9. RUkickboxer

    RUkickboxer Yellow Belt

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    from the first post, "He didn't get his hand back to his face. Big risk. But he stayed in the pocket and used good form"

    I'm sure it'll get worked out for Condit's rematch against Kampmann.

    But really, in the exchange, there are always mistakes. Against someone with better technique, Condit would have paid for dropping his hand and overcommitment to the cross. But he obviously felt at that point that he could stay in the pocket and swing without getting KO'd.

    Early in the fight, Condit was throwing good combos and Hardy was not staying engaged.
     
  10. chillyoo

    chillyoo Brown Belt

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    they both get caught there, condit gets hit and you can tell he felt the punch as it landed his head swings the opposite way but hardys punch is just longer and lands further back on condits jaw where condits punch lands clean on hardys chin....to me when two fighters are in there with bad intentions and really want to KO the other fighter there going to throw a little technique out the door, they both left thereselves open and unfortunatly for me as a hardy fan condit landed the cleaner punch leading to the KO but its a game of inches, even centimeters you could easily reverse the situation with hardy clipping condit on the button and him going down....its the fight game, its why we love the sport
     
  11. KeyboardFighter

    KeyboardFighter Green Belt

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    I seem to hear and see this alot. Can it be that it is more of an effort to keep your hands up when the fight is fought at a longer distance? I mean the fighters must cover more ground to get in range, therefore requiring more balance and the form is hampered? Just a theory...
     
  12. Tropics1020

    Tropics1020 Brown Belt

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    just like Daley vs. Hazelett

    and imo that isn't really a display of great technique or anything, Condit just did a better job of commiting to the punch.
     
  13. VelociAldo**

    VelociAldo** Banned Banned

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    I wouldn't say Hardy's form sucks cuz he didn't land one perfect punch while another guy did during a fight.

    It's a fight, not a punch throwing competition in that moment.
     
  14. facedancer

    facedancer Warning: ***hole

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    Nice breakdown. I still thought Hardy's striking looked good though. He got cracked but he doesn't stick his chin out there like Leben. He's never flat footed and always looking to deliver with power.
     
  15. GangstaBoogie

    GangstaBoogie Purple Belt

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    People who are on their toes sacrifice power. If he wanted to deliver with power he needs to get off his toes and plant his feet.
     
  16. Zigmeister

    Zigmeister Purple Belt

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    Ok arm chair warrior. You are wrong on most of your analysis.

    First, they both just through straight right hands...so getting your right hand back up next to your face as you through a left hook is going to be hard to do, neither fighter had their right hand back up against their head...many pro boxers do the same thing.

    Second, the situation could have been easily reversed, had Hardy thrown the tighter hook, he might have KO'd Condit. Their form is nearly identical except Hardy threw a fist down hook, whereas Condit through a palm facing his face hook. I prefer Condit's method personally and was taught this way, it stops the looping effect that hurt Hardy in this instance that could happen. Palm facing hooks help keep it tighter. Hardy also stood up slightly as he was throwing his hook, as did Condit, but more so.

    Lastly, due to the heigh difference, that may have been the reason Hardy was coming up on his toes as he threw it, along with the mechanics/physics after trying to throw the straight right and firing a left hook.

    Neither guy looked great with their combination, but the technique doesn't have to be perfect, you just need to land it flush and hard...which Condit managed to do.

    Final thought, both fighters knew exactly what was coming, they both saw each other throw the straight right, and both saw each other's left hook coming and were hoping they landed their's first and hard on the button.
     
  17. Tropics1020

    Tropics1020 Brown Belt

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    This is great technique, Floyd actually lands his hook and then backs out of the way of his opponents punch. He also keeps his right hand up for protection.

    Same scenario, but Mayweather comes out of it without getting hit at all whereas most MMA fighters and a lot of boxers would take one to give one in that situation.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2010
  18. KlLLEmAll

    KlLLEmAll Blue Belt

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    Condit put more bodyweight behind his punch and landed directly on the chin. Hardy did not.

    People will soon learn that this isn't a big deal, it just happened at that moment and Hardy is probably still a better striker.
     
  19. facedancer

    facedancer Warning: ***hole

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    On his toes means he's not a stationary target. You can still plant that back foot and not be a walking punching bag.
     
  20. Rhyis***

    Rhyis*** Banned Banned

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    He won because he has a mean chin.
     

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