Hardest punchers ever and weight

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by ssj4goku1992, Jun 15, 2019.

  1. ssj4goku1992

    ssj4goku1992 Yellow Belt

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    I made this thread in the standup forum but it s also something regarding strength so I thought I ll use your feedback as well guys.

    I find it fascinating how the hardest punchers in history were all around the same weight of 210-220 pounds.
    Sonny Liston, George Foreman, Ron Lyle, Earnie Shavers, Mike Tyson, Deontay Wilder.
    The only guys that I know that are up there with the list above and are 220+ pounds are Vitali, Wladimir and Lennox Lewis. Maybe Anthony Joshua? All being 240-250 pounds.

    That s pretty surprising, don t you think? Middleweights walk around 220 pounds in UFC for example and they are considered small and weak nowadays for the heavyweight division. Even in boxing, 220 pounds is considered small now, in fact you could argue that from the late 90s onwards, the boxers are bigger, badder and more powerful and that old atg punchers would not be comparable to the power that these guys are able to generate with their shots... A 240-250 pounds picture perfect punch should be significantly more powerful than a 210-220 pounds picture perfect punch...

    But then comes Deontay Wilder, rises up the ranks and becomes the hardest puncher in the division today, clearly above all these 240+ pounds guys... While he is 210-220 pounds!!! Look at what the man can do with 1-2 shots in the 12th round to a very big guy like Tyson Fury...

    So what is the explanation for this? Shouldn t 240-250 pounds hard punchers significantly punch harder than 210-220 pounds? Is 210-220 pounds the ideal weight for power generation? Then why are people of this weight nowadays considered small, weak and with low power for the heavyweight division in combat sports? Boxing, kickboxing, mma etc?
     
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  2. deadshot138

    deadshot138 Red Belt

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    How do you know how hard they punch? Has it been measured? If you catch someone right you don’t have to hit extraordinarily hard to knock them down/out
     
  3. ssj4goku1992

    ssj4goku1992 Yellow Belt

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    Well you google top hardest punchers ever and only these guys come up every single time?
     
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  4. wufabufa

    wufabufa Black Belt

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    I googled "Sherdog top posts with flawed reasoning" and your thread had the top 6 spots. Pretty neat stuff.
     
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  5. ssj4goku1992

    ssj4goku1992 Yellow Belt

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    Omg i should have known better before posting in this retard city called sherdog...

    Hey :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:, i googled top 6 cocksuckers in town and your name was on all 6 places. How s that?
     
  6. Noodles03

    Noodles03 Green Belt

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    I like pancakes
     
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  7. wufabufa

    wufabufa Black Belt

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    All of that naughty language and at a time like Pride month......shame on you young man. Maybe you're one of those self-loathing types.....I mean, you admitted you've sought out local men to for some mouth to south action, Lord knows what else is in your closeted search history.

    To answer your original question, 218.68lbs is the optimum body weight to achieve max pugilism. I've run the numbers in Microsoft Excel.......also on an abacus. It all adds up.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2019
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  8. aus101

    aus101 Black Belt

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    More people of lower weights, more chance of a harder puncher (an outlier).
     
  9. Wikinger

    Wikinger Blue Belt

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    Ring Magazine's 100 greatest punchers (ca 2003: https://www.liveabout.com/ring-magazine-top-punchers-of-all-time-424118)
    • (maybe not "hardest"; list is more of a qualitative assessment)
    • Seems to be a variety of different weight classes
    • (I was expecting Ingemar Johansson to show up in the top ten, tbh)
    1. Joe Louis
    2. Sam Langford
    3. Jimmy Wilde
    4. Archie Moore
    5. Sandy Saddler
    6. Stanley Ketchell
    7. Jack Dempsey
    8. Bob Fitzsimmons
    9. George Forman
    10. Earnie Shavers
     
  10. ssj4goku1992

    ssj4goku1992 Yellow Belt

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  11. KBE6EKCTAH_CCP

    KBE6EKCTAH_CCP Québecstan S S R

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    I seriously don't understand why the TS is getting shit on by everybody. I find the topic interesting and the question legit.

    Unless of course his assumption is flawed and the most powerful HWs in history have been heavier than his claim. Don't know, I haven't researched the topic, but I suspect that the people who shit on TS have not researched the topic either.
     
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  12. Ilk

    Ilk Green Belt

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    Because the question is not legit.
    First the power has not been measured in these punches. Second we know from science that power is not the main reason for a KD/KO. Third most KOs do not really come out of nowhere with a single hit, but there has been some damage done before hand. Which makes measuring the power of the KO punch pointless.

    Where his claim that lower weighted heavy weights may hit harder than heavier guys in the division may stand some ground, is if there is some optimal biomechanical advantageous weight which allows punching to be delivered at maximum power related to the average size of the top boxers in the heavy weight division. But that is easy to argue against just by comparing the body structure of Tyson vs Wilder. By the way the biggest punches I have seen are from the fatty that bombed Joshua. These were power punches which even blocked or landing on the temple, killed Joshua.

    Lastly his KD example of Wilder vs Fury is not really great. Fury acted more as a surprised man that he is on the ground than someone heart. He took a breath and stand in a second and proceeded with destroying Wilder. I would say he was even disapointed or angered.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2019
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  13. ChickenBrother

    ChickenBrother JCPENNEY $3.98 BELT

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    The presence of PEDs in modern sport can not be ignored. There's a reason HW was anything >175 until 1979. Without PEDs, an in-shape man even close to 200 lbs fit for boxing is much bigger than average, and generally gets diminishing returns for striking, with size above low 200's.

    An imperfect example would be Bob Sapp and Ubereem's performance in K1. Fueled by horse and tainted kangaroo meat, they achieved lean size and strength with mobility that shouldn't be possible by natty humans, and beat K1 legends with brute force.
     
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  14. redneckninja

    redneckninja White Belt

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    Marciano hit so hard he would slip his own disc on a regular basis. If we’re talking pound for pound no ped era. And his record speaks for its self but there were alot of fights some were bums but he wasn’t doing good and just fukn pikyed em.
     
  15. Ultra O’Dia

    Ultra O’Dia Brown Belt

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    when looking at pre 1960 athletes (roughly when peds became widespread in the USA, having picked up on dianabol off the russians in the 50s) i feel like way less of a skinny fat bitch.
     
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  16. Ultra O’Dia

    Ultra O’Dia Brown Belt

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    Ive noticed it, too, TS.
    Even the two guys who really dropped Ali, (wait there was another one early on in his career) anyways, Frazier and Cooper were well under even the weight you are talking about.

    Obviously there is much to do about timing, precision, surprise and accumulation, but throwing a weighted hand is a nearly entirely ballistic form of power. If I were to look at bodytypes of strength athletes, id put powerlifters at the very ‘structural strength’ end of strength. Their lifts are of course about how much force can be generated, but they rely very heavily on sheer tendon strength and ability to carry weight. Towards the middle of the spectrum might be olympic lifters, wherein power comes into play in the sense that massive explosive speed is needed to throw the weight. Then, however, structural strength is a necessity in the catch. Then might come shotputters, who’s resistance is now no longer in the hundreds, but only 16 lbs. This expression of power is now very much about speed generated power, with the strength to not lose that power through the push of the 16lb ball. Boxers are nearly entirely ballistic, yet strength (and technique) is important in keeping the arm and body from buckling on contact, and therefore keeping all of the power generated from the ground going forward into the target.

    If you took those four disciplines, and looked at the top athletes bodytypes, you would see a scale from massive, massive man, to massive man, to very large man, to large man, basically.
     
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  17. spdrew2143

    spdrew2143 Blue Belt

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    Hardest puncher ever-your mom. Bodyweight-250.
     
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  18. Phlog

    Phlog Dad Belt

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    To answer your last question, the science of strength and conditioning specifically power is now able to maintain speed whilst putting on mass better than before.

    Or at least such knowledge is more readily available. Without that knowledge the peak power to weight ratio is the previous weight.
     
  19. NurseKnuckles

    NurseKnuckles My Mom's stronger than you belt

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    super excited to see where this thread goes.
     
  20. IGotAHugePeckah

    IGotAHugePeckah Black Belt

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    Punchers are born, not made. These guys were blessed with the power of Thor, but there are obviously a lot of 230+ who can knock your head off too.

    I think once you're in a certain range (above 200lbs), you have the capacity to KO anyone, because the brain just isn't meant to take that kind of shot.

    A 147lber is most likely not going to KO a 168lber, but the difference between 220 and 240 is negligible in terms of KO power.

    Herbie Hide was another smaller guy, a natural cruiserweight, who was just flatlining heavyweights.
     

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