"Hard-Working American" Myth

[7437]

It's not that complex. I've seen it first hand. Here's what happens - a woman decides she wants to have children and gets pregnant. During the pregnancy her work output drops. This results in lower scores (and lower raises if relevant).

After have the child, she takes 3 months off from work. Technically, she's still employed but in reality her contribution is zero. This impacts rewards for work done.

Then after having the child the woman's attention is split between work and home and she doesn't maintain the same mindless zeal for her work as before. This means she stops staying late, extra networking, etc. This means lower bonuses, less chance for promotion, etc.

Note that the woman never left the workforce during this whole experience. So on paper she's worked just as long as her male counterpart...in reality she's stopped working just as hard as her male counterpart.

That's not to say some real injustices aren't out there but most of them are reflections of choices made within the workplace that raw salary figures don't capture.

this is basically what I assume those numbers came from. nobody wants to be the guy working the long hours, but they sure want the same pay. God forbid they get the same standards though.

 

[panamaican]

the plow horse isn't the brain, bit it certainly is working harder. thats why the farmer drives instead of plowing it himself.

The horse's job is certainly easier. It doesn't have to understand or do anything but it's immediate task. The farmer has to do all the planning plus he must understand the horse's job if he's to direct it.

 

[OldGoat]

Yeah that's it. Why must you always go to the extremes when making your points? Everyone who is poor or down and out is smoking crack and has 20 kids according to you. You do realize we had a thriving healthy educated middle class in America at one point right? What do you think was the cause of those millions of Americans becoming impoverished? Did they all suddenly become morons out of the blue and turn to crack?

How exactly is middle class defined? In my neck of the woods even the poor have flat screens and cell phones. They might be poor but their standards of living are very high historically speaking.

 

[Poatan Power]

8 hours overtime a week?
so 48 hours of work a week. What now, no sunday? so, no day off at all the entire week?
Working 12 hour shifts? ignoring the legality of working that much...


and you are a medical professional eh? at least you get paid fairly. I bet you lift 50 pound metal objects all day. Clearly what you do is so physically taxing that doing overtime for you is the same as a manual laborer doing overtime.

I care about improving the real world. Not saying "That's how the world is, deal with it you pansy."

Maybe if more people cared things would actually improve.

Also, your nurses are getting ripped off, overworked and underpaid. As a result burnout, and substandard patient care results. Theres a real world example for you.

I would like to point out that I find nursing to be more physically taxing than my previous job building houses.

But I earn 300% more money as a nurse, so, lol.

 

[MarcoW]

Right. Her job is harder. You do the same repetitive task for 8 hours a day. She has to interact with a variety of people and manage both her job tasks and the personalities that come with them.

Absolutely, she's working harder than you. You may be more tired than her at the end of the day but the plow horse is usually more tired than the farmer. That doesn't mean the horse is the brains of the operation, lol. :icon_chee

as a University graduate, that kind of work is not tiring at all.
its relaxing. Sure it can be stressful with deadlines, but at least you can takes breaks when you want.

You can't in labor, you are doing harder work.

 

[MarcoW]

I would like to point out that I find nursing to be more physically taxing than my previous job building houses.

But I earn 300% more money as a nurse, so, lol.

hospitals don't seem to want to hire enough nurses here, I think the stats say something like 30% are suffering from burnout

 

[Bay Area]

Unfair wages? Lol. Putting a burger on a bun is not worth half of what people are mandated to give others. Get a real skill.

There is a science to it. Wendy's for example, wants the burger placed on the bun in such a way that the corners are aligned properly in relation to the bread.
It's not something anyone can do without proper training

 

[panamaican]

"Easy" is relative. Going coast to coast, doing a crossover, and slam dunking is easier for Lebron James than it is for Stephen Hawking. Doing a math problem is easier for Stephen Hawking than it is for Lebron James.

That doesn't change how hard the task itself is.

I'd even argue that LBJ's job is "harder" than Hawking's. Dribbling and dunking is easier, certainly. But doing it at LBJ's level is a task that very few people can accomplish. Hawking is incredibly smart but uniquely so?

 

[MarcoW]

The horse's job is certainly easier. It doesn't have to understand or do anything but it's immediate task. The farmer has to do all the planning plus he must understand the horse's job if he's to direct it.

a manual laborer is not a horse, and could undoubtedly do the job as a supervisor just as well (its incredibly easy as well)
and lol at being easier. Harder work is harder.

think about this, would you rather design a document or a building for 20$ an hour, or stand up lifting blocks for 20$ an hour, provided you were qualified to do both?

I would no doubt choose the first option because it would be so much easier

 

[ABACA]

15 post, 1 minute per post=15 minutes if not less.

Were you trying to prove something or just trying to be a jerk?

This is true, four shit posts in a row let's you get to 15 per day really fast.

 

[Deleted member 159002]

That doesn't change how hard the task itself is.

I'd even argue that LBJ's job is "harder" than Hawking's. Dribbling and dunking is easier, certainly. But doing it at LBJ's level is a task that very few people can accomplish. Hawking is incredibly smart but uniquely so?

The point is the difficulty of a task is different for each person. There's no objective answer to the question of what is easier, playing basketball or solving a math problems. It depends on who you ask.

 

[MarcoW]

That doesn't change how hard the task itself is.

I'd even argue that LBJ's job is "harder" than Hawking's. Dribbling and dunking is easier, certainly. But doing it at LBJ's level is a task that very few people can accomplish. Hawking is incredibly smart but uniquely so?

are you honestly suggesting that Hawking isn't uniquely smart?
he certainly isn't pedestrian.

 

[panamaican]

a manual laborer is not a horse, and could undoubtedly do the job as a supervisor just as well (its incredibly easy as well)
and lol at being easier. Harder work is harder.

think about this, would you rather design a document or a building for 20$ an hour, or stand up lifting blocks for 20$ an hour, provided you were qualified to do both?

I would no doubt choose the first option because it would be so much easier

Hmm, how long does it take to become qualified to do both?

Because if you picked a random guy off the street and asked him to do either and that he would be punished for failing at either task, I suspect he'd take lifting blocks over potentially killing people every day of the week.

I certainly wouldn't risk designing buildings for others without working significantly harder than I'd work lifting and moving blocks.

 

[panamaican]

are you honestly suggesting that Hawking isn't uniquely smart?
he certainly isn't pedestrian.

He certainly is not pedestrian. That's a leap that I didn't make. LBJ isn't pedestrian either.

 

[panamaican]

The point is the difficulty of a task is different for each person. There's no objective answer to the question of what is easier, playing basketball or solving a math problems. It depends on who you ask.

I think there is an objective answer. Some people are more suited to specific tasks but that's about the people, not the task.

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

Sucks having successful people point out your childish errors huh?

I highly doubt either of u are at all successful...

You 2 are like the donkeys that vote for Romney but barely clear 40K a year... "BBBBut one days I mights be rich too."

 

[MarcoW]

Hmm, how long does it take to become qualified to do both?

Because if you picked a random guy off the street and asked him to do either and that he would be punished for failing at either task, I suspect he'd take lifting blocks over potentially killing people every day of the week.

I certainly wouldn't risk designing buildings for others without working significantly harder than I'd work lifting and moving blocks.

I get that one takes more education.
that doesn't change the fact that it is by far easier labor than manual labor.

What is work?
work is technically a measure of joules, force times distance.
In reality this is basically calories burned.

So sure you burn calories thinking but not nearly as much as doing labor.
In terms of physics manual labor is harder work.

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

Right. Her job is harder. You do the same repetitive task for 8 hours a day. She has to interact with a variety of people and manage both her job tasks and the personalities that come with them.

Absolutely, she's working harder than you. You may be more tired than her at the end of the day but the plow horse is usually more tired than the farmer. That doesn't mean the horse is the brains of the operation, lol. :icon_chee

This post is filled with so much horse bunk it isn't even funny...

Sitting in an office is a joke most of the time, even jobs like master plumbers and master carpenters are all harder than most lame office work.. and both a plumber and a carpenter require hard labor and a brain to do properly.. Well that is if you want your house to stay in order properly..

God knows emails and phone calls are killer..


Get over yourself.

 

[LucasWithLidOff]

I highly doubt either of u are at all successful...

You 2 are like the donkeys that vote for Romney but barely clear 40K a year... "BBBBut one days I mights be rich too."

Let the blue collar butt hurt flow through you.

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

Let the blue collar butt hurt flow through you.

I grew up in a successful family who didn't teach me to spit on people who make less like u and Goat.

I don't begrudge plumbers for wanting a higher salary like u 2 butt hurt donkeys who thinks the world owes them something but no one else anything..

Your thinking and Goats is flawed beyond measure. First who is gonna do everything that is needed to be done on a daily basis if everyone sits in an office pushing pencils and Second, why does it make blue collar workers booze hounds or junkies..

Its nonsensical..

And lastly most blue collar workers I know who are all masters of their fields make well over what most donkeys in a suit make sitting in a cubicle all day long. Master electrician is easily a 100+K salary.