Happy Birthday Kano Shihan

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by CajunJudoka, Oct 28, 2010.

  1. CajunJudoka

    CajunJudoka Judo Brown BJJ Brown

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2010
    Messages:
    789
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Third Coast
    Born: October 28, 1860
    Thank you for Judo and Jiu Jitsu!
    Show the man some respect! Without him the name Gracie wouldn't be so important.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2010
  2. Rod1

    Rod1 Titanium Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2010
    Messages:
    46,554
    Likes Received:
    32,557
    Location:
    Sonora, Mexico.
    thumbs up

    On a funny note this is also the birthday of my judo coach
     
  3. stimbox

    stimbox Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2008
    Messages:
    473
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    San Francisco
    O tanjyoubi omedetto gozaimashita!
     
  4. stimbox

    stimbox Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2008
    Messages:
    473
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    San Francisco
    His gi would get him dq'd these days.
     
  5. STILLKICKING

    STILLKICKING Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2007
    Messages:
    1,679
    Likes Received:
    205
    Location:
    Kitchener Ontario
    His throws would get him DQ'd now
     
  6. An end for

    An end for Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2009
    Messages:
    1,867
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    My own personal hell.
    Happy birthday Jigoro Kano!
     
  7. stimbox

    stimbox Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2008
    Messages:
    473
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    San Francisco
    But his gi would get him hansoku make'd first before he could even do any of his now illegal throws.:D
     
  8. judogido

    judogido Aussie!, Aussie!, Aussie! ...

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2004
    Messages:
    3,741
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Down Under
    Firstly, we don't have Kano to thank for jiu-jitsu, Jiu-jitsu (actually jujutsu) was in existence before Kano. Judo is a modified version of jujutsu (as is Aikido). Jujutsu is the tree, Judo is a branch...

    If you are referring to BJJ, then yes - some credit is owed to him as the originator of the style upon which BJJ was founded, however why even bring it up?

    Judoka never "credit" jujutsu, or credit Kano's original teachers for providing a basis upon which judo was founded - so why should BJJer's do so for judo?

    It just seems like judoka always feel the need to point out BJJs origins as though BJJers somehow constantly need to acknowledge judo. Perhaps this is because of the original Gracie apparent "propoganda" which appeared to endeavour to distance it's origins from judo and claim a direct lineage to jujutsu. Whether this was conscious and deliberate is debatable, since judo was originally introduced to Brazil as "jiu-jitsu" (still being known at the time as Kano Jujutsu as well as the newer "judo").

    In any event, I waffle.... I think the world in general "owes" Kano for creating "judo". - and not just for the techniques he "created" but the additional philosophy that makes judo distinctive.
     
  9. Q mystic

    Q mystic Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2005
    Messages:
    14,174
    Likes Received:
    4
    I likes your style judogido.:D
     
  10. fourfif**

    fourfif** Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2008
    Messages:
    7,840
    Likes Received:
    6
    [​IMG]

    The manual: 'THE COMPLETE KANO JIU-JITSU [Judo]' (c. 1906, 1961) by Harry Irving Hancock and Katsukuma Higashi, may surprise those who have not seen photographs of combat Judo at its inception. Filled with 1906 photographs of Judo "tricks", THE COMPLETE KANO JIU-JITSU displayed a Judo which would not be recognized in today's dojo.

    This style of 1906 combat Judo portrayed in THE COMPLETE KANO JIU-JITSU was practiced with the standard white Uwa-gi Judo top but with black leggings with leather knee-pads, and while wearing black shoes. The techniques or "tricks", as the author described them, resembled free-style wrestling with take downs and few throws.

    Also, clearly recognizable are the strangle holds and pinning techniques of Tenshin Shinyo Ryu (School of the Natural Way) Jiu-Jitsu and the throwing techniques of Kito Ryu (To Rise and Fall) Jiu-Jitsu; the two styles of Jiu-Jitsu from which the genius Dr. Jigoro Kano developed his Judo.

    The book THE COMPLETE KANO JIU-JITSU contained the 1906 photographs of two Judo leg-locks (photos No.424 & No.425), and an early Judo leg throw (No. 419), a kick to the groin from standing (No. 416) and from the ground (No. 417).

    Overall, THE COMPLETE KANO JIU-JITSU is a superb reference source for the hopologist who wishes to delve into the martial arts past and on Judo history. This work should be read in conjunction with KODOKAN JUDO by Dr. Jigoro Kano, to provide an excellent insight into Judo's development!



    edit:...freestyle wrestling, leg locks and groin kicks. good times... :icon_chee
     
  11. Auspex

    Auspex Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    2,633
    Likes Received:
    95
    Location:
    Boise, Idaho
    Really the only reason I ever got into Judo.
     
  12. Rod1

    Rod1 Titanium Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2010
    Messages:
    46,554
    Likes Received:
    32,557
    Location:
    Sonora, Mexico.
    False, jujutsu as it existed before Kano was incredibly fragmented as there was little crosstraining. Kano was the first to actively look for crosstraining.

    Another thing is that by the time of Kano, jujutsu was already dying, as a tool designed for samurai combat it was pointless in an era without samurais, and training was incredibly brutal not to mention that live sparring usually meant looking for fights.

    Kano brought the concept of ippon and tapping, which allowed fighters to practice daily and compete safely.

    Basically Kano did a compendium of jujutsu schools and applied western education principles to it.

    Dunno, lineage?

    Because Judo is fundamentally different from jujutsu, not only in technique, but more importantly on the teaching principles. Kano saved jujutsu from dissappearing.

    Exactly, the techniques were not really that improved on, he came with the concept of kuzushi or imbalance, but he really didn't invented much as he did gathered and unified jujutsu schools.

    You talk as if jujutsu was the tree, but its more like jujutsu were the bricks and Kano put them together along with modern, western teaching methods coupled with eastern philosophy in order to create a self-propagating and long lasting "way" of which many other sports or arts originated.
     
  13. Sub-Zero

    Sub-Zero White Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2006
    Messages:
    96
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Springfield, MO USA
    The more I think about it, the more I wonder...what techniques in Judo are not from old Jujitsu or Western wrestling?

    Don't get me wrong, I have much respect for Mr. Kano. But I also wonder if it is fair to call something "Basically Just Judo" when Judo itself is mostly a compilation of techniques from its parent art.
     
  14. PointyShinyBurn

    PointyShinyBurn Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,646
    Likes Received:
    395
    Location:
    London, UK
    Nope. Read a little about Yukio Tani, for example (The Game of Jujitsu - Yukio Tani & Gunji Koizumi 1906). Sporting Jiu Jitsu with tapping out existed before Kano. The 1895 Gokyo didn't even have any groundwork in it, only after meeting Fusen Ryu's ne waza artists in 1900 did Kano think it worth including.

    As for the ippon throw, don't forget the story about kata guruma, Kano was doing throw-based randori in Tenjin Shin'yō-ryū. And the single 'Ippon' match actually came later. Early Judo was best two out of three.
    This, Kano systemised the technique and applied a concept of using it for a higher purpose.
     
  15. Carrera26

    Carrera26 Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2009
    Messages:
    478
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Gainesville, FL
    I see his greatest gift the idea of taking out techiniques that lead to injuries in sparring and/or were "too deadly" to practice to concentrate on the ones that could be done full force with repetition to make them reliable. More than anything he invented Randori as we know it.

    Also, he was more of a technician than most give him credit for. Even the great Mifune said that he never reached Kano's level of mastery, and coming from the man most regard as the best Judoka of all time...
     
  16. Rod1

    Rod1 Titanium Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2010
    Messages:
    46,554
    Likes Received:
    32,557
    Location:
    Sonora, Mexico.
    You do realize that Yukio was 1 when Judo was founded and 5 when Judo won the police tournament?

    Fusen ryu did incorporated newaza and they became strong in the 2 years following the tournament and won the 1888 tournament through skillful application of newaza AFTER they adapted modern training techniques implemented by Kano, and later they joined judo and became part of it.

    I never claimed that Kano invented all, i strictly pointed out how Kano put all jujutsu schools under one banner, against the false claim that he simply deviated from jujutsu as a whole, when there was no jujutsu as a whole, all jujutsu schools trained differently.

    Ippon is not randori, Ippon came to be after the deaths of the first tournament and after Shiro Saigo got expelled for killing someone. In the first tournament, you could only win through submission or maiming. Throws did not scored, so basically it was throwing people until they could no more into wooden floors.

    Now you can imagine how much concussions and injuries can come of playing a judo where the only way to defeat someone is to throw them into hard wood until they tap.


    And by doing so saved jujutsu and a lot of other japanese MAs from joining the ranks of ninjutsu.
     
  17. CajunJudoka

    CajunJudoka Judo Brown BJJ Brown

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2010
    Messages:
    789
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Third Coast
    Some credit?
    Kano Shihan-Coma-Carlos Gracie-JUST about everyone else
    Because of this man two martial arts were created Judo and Jiu Jitsu. I think it's a big deal.

    Of course Jujitsu was around before Kano, that is why I wrote Jiu Jitsu. If you think it is not worth mentioning the guy who taught the guy who taught the Gracies AND other Brazilians Judo/Kano JJ then we will agree to disagree. No matter what anybody in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu wants to think, their lineage can be traced back to KANO SHIHAN.

    Celebrating 150yrs!!!

    From the IJF's facebook feed: "Dear Judo Fans! As most of you well know, today is Jigoro Kano's 150th birthday and we are really pleased to announce to you that in exactly 365 days from now, the first "World Judo Day" will be organized, the day before next year's Open Judo World Championship in Russia. The theme of that unique moment will be "respect".
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2010
  18. unearth187

    unearth187 Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    Messages:
    624
    Likes Received:
    2
    The difference is that Judo was a compilation of techniques from many arts, mixed in with a new approach to the teaching, practice, and philosophy behind the art. If I go to the store and buy meat, cheese, bread, etc and put all those components together I now have a cheeseburger, and although made from products created by others, is my unique combination and cooking that makes it what it is. BJJ on the other hand, is like walking into a restaurant, taking the pickles and onions off of a burger, and then claiming what you have in your hand is something unique that you created. Even worse, trying to sell it off in front of the restaurant as something original. And then having the owner of the restaurant come outside and break your arm. :icon_twis:icon_twis
     
  19. Sub-Zero

    Sub-Zero White Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2006
    Messages:
    96
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Springfield, MO USA
    So the only difference is there's a philosophy behind Judo.
    Except people seem to want cheeseburgers the way they used to be made back in the olden days. The owner may have used to make cheeseburgers that way, but not really anymore. The owner decided years ago that he would decide how people wanted cheeseburgers to taste. Somebody else then came along and found the old recipe and business isn't what it used to be.
     
  20. unearth187

    unearth187 Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    Messages:
    624
    Likes Received:
    2
    No the difference was judo was a compilation of many arts whereas bjj was just parts of one (the parts that can work for a weak man)
    So true. Pretty much LOL'ed hard when I read this. Fuck the IJF/IOC for basically shitting on judo.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.