Hand size punching power

information said:
If the force behind the punch is equal, then the smaller the hand is, the greater the pressure/impact inflicted on the target!
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How do you think the surface area of impact would change? And force being equal? When part of that equation includes mass, a smaller fist will be less mass, so you can't equalize force so easily
 
Speed and the confidence to commit to your punches=power, it has nothing to do with hand size, I can think of dozens of power punchers that don't have giant mitts.
 
Matt4786 said:
If the shoulder is the axis, it's a crappy punch, and in that case, I would say hand size matters. For a well-thrown punch, the body is very much a factor, and has business here.



It makes sense, it's just a simplification, since you would guess that integrating a human body is problematic. The rest of the body is not stationary, which is why I think you're confused. When throwing a hook, the entire body is rotating.

I estimate the rod to be about a meter, maybe a bit longer (distance from spine to hand), but I think he did it a bit too long TBH. He also forgot to divide a term by 2 (the moment of inertia for the hand), but that's not all that important.


Now if the guy is punching while moving backward, throwing a straight with no body behind it, then hand size might matter, but these are rarely KO punches as it is and we're talking about guys who know how to put their mass behind strikes, not just their arms.
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Okay. So if we start at the spine, then we need to divide the body in half (so 90 lbs, not 180). The other side of the spine does it's work, but I would calculate that as torque, not momentum (unless your body is a solid piece of titanium whereby the movement of one part necessitates the movement of the other parts).

Now you need to take out the lower body below the hips because there's no way this belongs in this calculation. The force from the legs is in the form of kinetic linking, not momentum (i.e. You push off the legs when your throw a punch; you don't swing the legs with and in the direction of the punch). So we're down to, say 50 lbs now.

Then take out the head (or the half of a head that's left), because the head doesn't swing when you throw a punch and we're down to more like 45 lbs.

And now we need to factor in the fact that somewhere in the range of 80% of that weight is in the 1/3 of our very awkward rod that is closest to the axis (much of it a lot closer, actually) and is traveling at a much slower velocity and generating relatively little momentum.

So now we've got about 9 lbs left that is generating most of the momentum of the punch (and even that's being generous considering the weight and range of motion of the the upper arm) and at the very end of that 9 lbs, the most important part of that 9 lbs, is the fist which, besides being the point of impact is moving faster and through a greater range of motion than any other part of the body.

But you want to do a rod for 180 lbs and calculate a 100 gram difference because, hey, my boxing coach keeps telling me that you throw a punch with your whole body.
 
JDS has small hands I think? I don't think it matters, just a better chance of a bigger hand catching you.
 
Matt4786 said:
Just to be a stickler, I think you need to divide term 3 by 2.
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Term 3 as in the hand? Not if I'm treating it as a point particle. Look up the wikipedia page on moment of inertia to see what I mean.

I divided the body calculation in Term 2 by two since I was treating it as a disk. The derivation of that is a little complex, but basically its because theres some cancelling that goes on. See http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/tdisc.html for more on that.

EDIT: Just saw your edit haha. My bad.
 
jeremyemilio said:
Okay. So if we start at the spine, then we need to divide the body in half (so 90 lbs, not 180). The other side of the spine does it's work, but I would calculate that as torque, not momentum (unless your body is a solid piece of titanium whereby the movement of one part necessitates the movement of the other parts).

Now you need to take out the lower body below the hips because there's no way this belongs in this calculation. The force from the legs is in the form of kinetic linking, not momentum (i.e. You push off the legs when your throw a punch; you don't swing the legs with and in the direction of the punch). So we're down to, say 50 lbs now.

Then take out the head (or the half of a head that's left), because the head doesn't swing when you throw a punch and we're down to more like 45 lbs.

And now we need to factor in the fact that somewhere in the range of 80% of that weight is in the 1/3 of our very awkward rod that is closest to the axis (much of it a lot closer, actually) and is traveling at a much slower velocity and generating relatively little momentum.

So now we've got about 9 lbs left that is generating most of the momentum of the punch (and even that's being generous considering the weight and range of motion of the the upper arm) and at the very end of that 9 lbs, the most important part of that 9 lbs, is the fist which, besides being the point of impact is moving faster and through a greater range of motion than any other part of the body.

But you want to do a rod for 180 lbs and calculate a 100 gram difference because, hey, my boxing coach keeps telling me that you throw a punch with your whole body.
Click to expand...

I could argue the finer points of some flaws in this statement, but obroin already proved the larger point for you, and using math. Leave the physics to him. I have organic chemistry to do. In short, you are greatly underestimating these contributions and just throwing them away at a whim. If anything, the arm seems to be the sweet spot between mass and radius.
 
obroin said:
Term 3 as in the hand? Not if I'm treating it as a point particle. Look up the wikipedia page on moment of inertia to see what I mean.

I divided the body calculation in Term 2 by two since I was treating it as a disk. The derivation of that is a little complex, but basically its because theres some cancelling that goes on. See http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/tdisc.html for more on that.
Click to expand...

yeah. my mistake. You did a fine job.
 
Zarathustra said:
No, you don't. Put down the physics textbook and go learn some punching technique.
Click to expand...

A. Straight punches are thrown from the shoulder. I won't bother arguing the point because it's just plain dumb to to argue with a guy who thinks you can throw a straight punch without moving your fist rapidly away from your shoulder.

B. Even a properly thrown hook makes some use of the range of motion in the shoulder.

C. Anything behind the shoulder isn't very far behind the shoulder and is moving very little and relatively slowly in comparison to the fist. That matters.

D. You may not realize it, but what you are suggesting, in the context of this discussion, proper 'punching technique' involves swinging the shoulder as though it was part of the arm/fist, rather than using the shoulder to generate power and drive the arm and fist.

(i.e. YOU are the one who is endorsing the 'arm punch' technique... not me.)
 
Matt4786 said:
I could argue the finer points of some flaws in this statement, but obroin already proved the larger point for you, and using math. Leave the physics to him. I have organic chemistry to do. In short, you are greatly underestimating these contributions and just throwing them away at a whim. If anything, the arm seems to be the sweet spot between mass and radius.
Click to expand...

Fine enough.

I'm not trying to do anything on a whim... just trying to come up with some reasonable starting points for a (hopefully) better simplification than 180 evenly distributed lbs.

If I'm honest, the concepts are still there, but the math is long gone. If I tried to do the equation it would take me all day and I would just screw it up badly... that and the fact that I'm pretty iffy on the figures I should even start with (distances, weight, distribution, etc) is enough to discourage me from even attempting it.

Which is why I did 'leave the physics to him' more or less.

Anyway, it was fun using the brain on the sherdog for once (even if I did spend way too much time on it).

Cheers.

Good luck with the chem.
 
Hawkman3111 said:
Divided by the impact area, which would mean small hands are better.

Punching technique is what matters.
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So if the punching tech is @ 10 on 1-10 scale, having a bigger hand would be better to generate more power.


Its not the size of the ship but the motion in the ocean.............???












Well... when you have them both you can part the motha fuckin sea!
 
Last edited:
jeremyemilio said:
A. Straight punches are thrown from the shoulder. I won't bother arguing the point because it's just plain dumb to to argue with a guy who thinks you can throw a straight punch without moving your fist rapidly away from your shoulder.

B. Even a properly thrown hook makes some use of the range of motion in the shoulder.

C. Anything behind the shoulder isn't very far behind the shoulder and is moving very little and relatively slowly in comparison to the fist. That matters.

D. You may not realize it, but what you are suggesting, in the context of this discussion, proper 'punching technique' involves swinging the shoulder as though it was part of the arm/fist, rather than using the shoulder to generate power and drive the arm and fist.

(i.e. YOU are the one who is endorsing the 'arm punch' technique... not me.)
Click to expand...

No, you just don't know what you're talking about.
 
jeremyemilio said:
A. Straight punches are thrown from the shoulder. I won't bother arguing the point because it's just plain dumb to to argue with a guy who thinks you can throw a straight punch without moving your fist rapidly away from your shoulder.

B. Even a properly thrown hook makes some use of the range of motion in the shoulder.

C. Anything behind the shoulder isn't very far behind the shoulder and is moving very little and relatively slowly in comparison to the fist. That matters.

D. You may not realize it, but what you are suggesting, in the context of this discussion, proper 'punching technique' involves swinging the shoulder as though it was part of the arm/fist, rather than using the shoulder to generate power and drive the arm and fist.

(i.e. YOU are the one who is endorsing the 'arm punch' technique... not me.)
Click to expand...

Sure, the shoulder is a factor in a straight punch, but then so is your body's center of gravity and your hips, and the position of your feet, and etc

also the movement of the target. is your opponent walking into it? are they moving away as you catch them? All this calculation of the momentum of a fist is the first thing to go out the window when you are actually discussing real situations in boxing or mma.

THere's so much more to a fight than math problems about weight. it weirds me out that so many people gravitate to figuring a bunch of trivial things out with physics.

you could be at a gym getting tagged in the face repeatedly by someone who is way doper than you! doesnt that sound like more fun?
 
Punch someone with a weight in your hand and youll realize the heavier the hand = more damage
 
OCdurty said:
Punch someone with a weight in your hand and youll realize the heavier the hand = more damage
Click to expand...

i would rather take an arm punch with a roll of quarters to the grill than a full on JDS overhand right, any day.

Theres an effect but it is so miniscule its probably not worth hashing out, when you consider all the other factors that go into what makes a punch knock a person out
 
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