Half guard: What to do when your partner keeps his weight back?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Lovesong, Mar 10, 2008.

  1. Lovesong

    Lovesong Green Belt

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    When I play half guard I like to play the underhook game or a half butterfly. If my opponent is actively trying to flatten me out then I feel like I am in control of his weight allowing sweeps and such. This is extremely true with wrestlers who like to pin your upper body because it leaves the hips light.

    My problem is that more experienced guys keep thier weight back a lot more and don't allow me to get under thier base. If I do get a good underhook and try to get under my partner, I'm usually rewarded with a brabo attempt or my head pushed down on the mat, either counter serves to destroy the effectiveness of my underhook and allow him to get his weight back.

    Once he is sitting back he can work to pin my legs together and walk around quite easily. I've tried sitting up into him and working for an underhook, but the problem is that when I am on my elbow sitting up, I can no longer block the crossface which gets me flattened out and vulnerable.

    This is both no-gi and gi by the way, but at least with a gi on I can attempt to work a leg lasso and can control sleeves better when he sits back.

    Advice?
     
  2. Zankou

    Zankou Bringing peace and love Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Interesting question. I encounter the same issue. Usually I try to go to z guard or quarter guard and then work from there.

    But sometimes you just have to use that situation to go back to full guard.
     
  3. blanko

    blanko Guest

    are you talking about the traditional half guard?
     
  4. Lovesong

    Lovesong Green Belt

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    Blanko,

    Yes I'm talking about a traditional half guard.


    Zankou,

    Z-guard is where you bring your leg across like the scissor sweep? What offensively am I looking for from there? If I stay too passive in that position I'm inviting a scissor pass.

    You can't really do a scissor sweep unless you pull your bottom hook out, so is that part of it? Do you just start pushing straight back into him trying to get him either fall over or push back into you? I have a hard time picturing much offense from a z guard, do you perhaps have some videos or images to help me out?

    Thanks.
     
  5. tudor_bjj

    tudor_bjj Purple Belt

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    Use the Z guard first, to avoid the leg pinnning. Saulo teaches this on his instructional. I always start my half guard with my shin on their belly. It gives you time/space to get into the posture that you desire. If he is leaning back you can either a) work on armdrag on the closest to your body arm; b) get double underhooks; c) go to what Eddie Bravo calls "dogfight" (hard to explain); d) go to butterfly.
     
  6. Zankou

    Zankou Bringing peace and love Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    I don't have a video, but I use the z-guard all the time. There is very little that can be done offensively from it, what you are looking to do is fight for a good halfguard position to attack from. You sit there and look to armdrag the guy, or take deep half guard, get a deep underhook, or (my favorite) scissor sweep to backroll sweep him.

    A lot of times you may end up with an opponent just stalling in your z-guard, and if so, you can always just try going back to full guard.
     
  7. Sherdog_Mutt

    Sherdog_Mutt Purple Belt

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    A few things that I like to do when their hips/weight is back:

    1) Switch to full guard or butterfly guard.

    2) Z-guard- From there, control the arm and you can scissor sweep him backwards, sweep him forwards (by moving your hips underneath him), or sweep him directly over your head by forcing his arm across his body and rolling backwards. You can counter the scissor smash pass by switching immediately to quarter guard (half-guard with bicep hook).

    3) Quarter guard.

    By the way, whenever you have the underhook and the guy on top tries to brabo you. Immediately reach for his untrapped knee and move your hips underneath him for an easy sweep. He's pinning his own arm for you when he goes for the brabo. However, you have to do this quick to avoid the choke.
     
  8. Sub Dude

    Sub Dude Blue Belt

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    Check out Gustavo Machado's half and quarter guard DVD. There are a lot of sweeps and some submission options you can transition into from there. Reference the "z-guard", I've found that if you keep the knee more straight up and down, or at least at an angle, rather than just across, you can defeat that type of pass, and transition into the quarter guard easily when they attempt it.
     
  9. Rotaryengine

    Rotaryengine Orange Belt

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    Hip up then go for oldschool?
     
  10. gracie_barra**

    gracie_barra** Purple Belt

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    this is a perfect scenario for the old school.

    if u get flattened again its time to use the monson /wilson reis sweep.
     
  11. TacWar

    TacWar Green Belt

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    video? or is this just the sweep where you use his momentum when he is flattening you to roll him over for the sweep?
     
  12. Tony Manifold

    Tony Manifold Brown Belt

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    For the old school sweep, you get up on a hip with a Deep underhook on that side. Then you grab is far side leg and drive into him.

    This might show it. I can't view video at work.

    http://learnbjjtechniques.com/content/view/118/
     
  13. TacWar

    TacWar Green Belt

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    I wasn't talking about old school, the poster I quoted mentioned a sweep to do off of getting flattened while going for oldschool that was the video I wanted, but like i said I think I know the sweep he was talking about. However, if it wasn't the sweep I was thinking of I wanted to see it as you can never know too many sweeps.
     
  14. sha

    sha Geekjitsu Black Belt

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    Personally I use this position (keeping my weight back) to fight for the underhook, but I always try to control the upper body before atempting a pass.

    If I'm on bottom, I go to Z guard. Once you get Z guard, the only attacks available for the guy on top are leglocks, and even this is hard to get.
     
  15. Gsoares2***

    Gsoares2*** Banned Banned

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    ditch the underhook and move to a deep half guard under the leg.

    Biggest thing to avoid in half guard in general is the guy getting head control.. Avoid it at all cost.. constantly move to deep half guard.. or back to the underhook. Use your hand to keep his arm away from your face.

    If the brabo is coming in.. dont get your underhook so deep.. and keep your elbow close to your body. Have some counters available for the brabo..

    There is a sweep to coutner the brabo, and a couple different defenses that work well.
     
  16. dustin

    dustin Yellow Belt

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    i use double V guard, then i'll switch to 1.5 basic guard. if this doesn't work i go ZzZz guard.

    how many fucking guards are there?
     
  17. dustin

    dustin Yellow Belt

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  18. Sherdog_Mutt

    Sherdog_Mutt Purple Belt

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    There are a lot of positions that exist inside half-guard. It's too difficult and cumbersome to call them "Half-guard when you're lying on your side with the knee stuck in between" and "Half-guard when your outside leg's shin has a bicep hook". Instead it's easier just to call them Z-guard or quarter guard. Laugh all you want about it... if you can come up with a better way to describe these positions, I'm all for it.
     
  19. FLMikeATT

    FLMikeATT Purple Belt

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    You could probably sit out and double leg from the knees.
     

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