Hagler-Leonard Anniversary Let's Score it

[Buddy Revell]

Legend says, Richard Steele is still warning Leonard for holding

 

[Buddy Revell]

Scored it 8 rounds to 4 in favor of Hagler. Very tough to score because of all of Leonard's four corners basketball/anti-football nonsense. And beyond the running and holding he landed little of any consequence. His punches were thrown to deceive the judges rather than to try and hurt Hagler.

Hagler landed the harder cleaner punches above the neck. Landed just about 100% of the telling body shots. And out punched Ray in the clinch whenever Ray wasn't doing his Octopus bit, be it by holding or slapping him with his limp noodles.

I think SRL thought that he was going to "No Mas" Hagler, beat him via mind fuck, and then around Round 5 you could see it dawn on him that Hagler wasn't fazed by any of his bullshit, at which point SRL tried to trade with Hagler and got hit hard (i specifically recall SRL's corner screaming at him after round 5: "box", "move," "don't punch," with Hagler).

In any event, the wrong man won that night. One of the smartest -- most cynical performances ever, imo.​

 

[Ultra O’Dia]

Scored it 8 rounds to 4 in favor of Hagler. Very tough to score because of all of Leonard's four corners basketball/anti-football nonsense. And beyond the running and holding he landed little of any consequence. His punches were thrown to deceive the judges rather than to try and hurt Hagler.

Hagler landed the harder cleaner punches above the neck. Landed just about 100% of the telling body shots. And out punched Ray in the clinch whenever Ray wasn't doing his Octopus bit, be it by holding or slapping him with his limp noodles.

I think SRL thought that he was going to "No Mas" Hagler, beat him via mind fuck, and then around Round 5 you could see it dawn on him that Hagler wasn't fazed by any of his bullshit, at which point SRL tried to trade with Hagler and got hit hard (i specifically recall SRL's corner screaming at him after round 5: "box", "move," "don't punch," with Hagler).

In any event, the wrong man won that night. One of the smartest -- most cynical performances ever, imo.​

His punches reminded me more of a playful kitty cat than an octopus.

 

[Buddy Revell]

His punches reminded me more of a playful kitty cat than an octopus.

He didn't do enough pawing with the jab to reach Calzaghe levels of slapping. Though in Joe's defense at least he would punctuate or break-up his flurries with actual clean punching. He damn near made arm punching into an art form.

 

[eternaldarkness]

I'll do it later. I've scored this a few times and always have Leonard winning. Hagler only wins if you give him extra credit for being a big puncher. Leonard outboxed him and built up a strong early lead in that one.

Leonard's early lead was the difference.

 

[Absolut]

Scored it 8 rounds to 4 in favor of Hagler. Very tough to score because of all of Leonard's four corners basketball/anti-football nonsense. And beyond the running and holding he landed little of any consequence. His punches were thrown to deceive the judges rather than to try and hurt Hagler.

Hagler landed the harder cleaner punches above the neck. Landed just about 100% of the telling body shots. And out punched Ray in the clinch whenever Ray wasn't doing his Octopus bit, be it by holding or slapping him with his limp noodles.

I think SRL thought that he was going to "No Mas" Hagler, beat him via mind fuck, and then around Round 5 you could see it dawn on him that Hagler wasn't fazed by any of his bullshit, at which point SRL tried to trade with Hagler and got hit hard (i specifically recall SRL's corner screaming at him after round 5: "box", "move," "don't punch," with Hagler).

In any event, the wrong man won that night. One of the smartest -- most cynical performances ever, imo.​

Leonard mind fucked Hagler for years leading up to this and somehow got Marvin to fight his fight.
I had it 7-5 Marvin, although I’ve had to 6-6 and 7-5 srl other times.

 

[Seano]

Round 1- 10-9 Leonard. Leonard controlling the round with the jab and a few combos. Moving effectively while Marvin follows him around. Hagler lands a few body shots but not much more.
Round 2- 20-18 Leonard. Reasonably competitive round with Leonard taking the round in the last 30 seconds. Hagler a little bit busier but mostly ineffective.
Round 3- 30-27 Leonard. Same story pretty much, Hagler following most of the round, getting a few mauling shots off in the clinch but its Leonard doing all the work the fans and judges really see.
Round 4- 40-36 Leonard. Really not a close fight at all at this point. Hagler looking like he had one exact game plan ,to force Leonard to slug it out toe to toe, and not trying to change it up at all. Looks one dimensional in the first 3rd of the fight. Leonard outboxing him clean.
Round 5- 49-46 Leonard. First round I see for Hagler. Finally able to land some big power shots and control the pace for some of the round.
Round 6- 59-55 Leonard Competitive round but clear for Ray. Ray landing all sorts of flashy long range shots and combinations.
Round 7 68-65 Leonard. Hagler finally fights consistently out of the southpaw stance instead of orthodox and much more effective. Leonard tried to steal late but didn't do enough.
Round 8- 77-75 Leonard. Pretty good round for Hagler. Leonard not really taking a beating but not able to get much done offensively either.
Round 9- 87-84 Leonard. Probably the toughest round to score. I thought Leonard edged in because in the exchanges, he was parrying a lot of Haglers shots and countering in combo. Close round but I gave it to Leonard.
Round 10- 96-94 Leonard. Another tough round to score. Big puncher or combination puncher, which do you like? I thought Hagler did enough.
Round 11- 106-103 Leonard. Leonard takes it with flash. Combos, showboating- Hagler still winging shots and missing. Does well inside though.
Round 12- 116-112 Leonard. Thought Leonard won this one pretty clear.
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Saw this one pretty much like I always do. Seems like I've had it either 115/113 or 116/112 everytime.

 

[BluntTrauma21]

Hagler shouldn't have come out orthodox for the first x amount of rds, I think he threw his own self off and SRL took advantage of that early in the fight.

I think Hagler arguably won this fight but he made it extra hard on himself fighting in the opposite stance to start.

We saw that recently with my boy Gallo and Sor Rungvisai when SSR came out and fought orthodox for some reason that I still can't explain and Gallo took advantage and by the time SSR came on as a southpaw it was too late.

 

[JayE]

Hagler shouldn't have come out orthodox for the first x amount of rds, I think he threw his own self off and SRL took advantage of that early in the fight.

I think Hagler arguably won this fight but he made it extra hard on himself fighting in the opposite stance to start.

We saw that recently with my boy Gallo and Sor Rungvisai when SSR came out and fought orthodox for some reason that I still can't explain and Gallo took advantage and by the time SSR came on as a southpaw it was too late.

Yeah, I actually thought of Hagler/Leonard watching the replay of SSR/Estrada. Still haven't figured out why they thought that was a good idea.

 

[Fluffernutter]

I've been a boxing fan for 33 years.

Why oh why did Marvin fight orthodox to start the fight?

 

[Absolut]

I've been a boxing fan for 33 years.

Why oh why did Marvin fight orthodox to start the fight?

cause Ray was in his head and had been for years. Hagler was not going to be intimidated. But, he was paranoid. He ended up in a place where he was way overthinking.

 

[Fluffernutter]

cause Ray was in his head and had been for years. Hagler was not going to be intimidated. But, he was paranoid. He ended up in a place where he was way overthinking.

Marvin is naturally right handed, like Michael Moorer.

 

[Milgrim]

Scored it 8 rounds to 4 in favor of Hagler. Very tough to score because of all of Leonard's four corners basketball/anti-football nonsense. And beyond the running and holding he landed little of any consequence. His punches were thrown to deceive the judges rather than to try and hurt Hagler.

Hagler landed the harder cleaner punches above the neck. Landed just about 100% of the telling body shots. And out punched Ray in the clinch whenever Ray wasn't doing his Octopus bit, be it by holding or slapping him with his limp noodles.

I think SRL thought that he was going to "No Mas" Hagler, beat him via mind fuck, and then around Round 5 you could see it dawn on him that Hagler wasn't fazed by any of his bullshit, at which point SRL tried to trade with Hagler and got hit hard (i specifically recall SRL's corner screaming at him after round 5: "box", "move," "don't punch," with Hagler).

In any event, the wrong man won that night. One of the smartest -- most cynical performances ever, imo.​

This pretty much summarizes how I see it.

 

[OneManOrgy]

I can't start a thread, I know I'm not a regular poster here, but I do know some boxing. Since I can't a thread, I thought I'd post THE WAR here cause we're all stuck inside

 

[PHATV]

Hagler sandbagged himself and retired to Italy from the betting profits.

Spoiler

He was the Clint Eastwood/Sylvester Stallone combined in Italian movies after boxing. A "superstar" there. Made more money than he made boxing, if I'm not mistaken. I may be, but I thought that was the case.

 

[Buddy Revell]

Leonard mind fucked Hagler for years leading up to this and somehow got Marvin to fight his fight.
I had it 7-5 Marvin, although I’ve had to 6-6 and 7-5 srl other times.

I could see it as a draw, honestly, if you gave the first 4 rounds to Sugar Ray. But there's no fucking way that Ray "won" that fight. His whole strategy was built to not FIGHT Hagler. Fact.

Don't get me wrong, it was a great tactical fight by Leonard. He knew that he was old, and had a wonky eye, and he tailored his approach to lessen the impact to said eye. But he never imposed himself on Hagler, either mentally or physically.

His win was style and narrative over substance.

 

[Seano]

He was the Clint Eastwood/Sylvester Stallone combined in Italian movies after boxing. A "superstar" there. Made more money than he made boxing, if I'm not mistaken. I may be, but I thought that was the case.

I heard he actually didn't make a ton of money in films. Theres a story about Hearns trying to get him to rematch. Hagler said he was getting a couple hundred grand for each movie and Hearns was surprised he didn't want to fight again for millions.

 

[Beastyle]

The truth is that Hagler was too hesitant, took too long to get going and let Ray connect with way too many clean punches. Hagler is one of my all time favorite fighters but Leonard outgunned him, outmoved him and outscored him. Plain and simple. No controversy, Leonard won.

 

[ForemanFan]

Watching it now I think Leonard schooled Hagler, what a masterful boxing display by Leonard. When I saw it on television in 1987, I though it was a close fight. But now I see that Hagler missed most of his punches and Leonard hit him a lot! Leonard was a phenom indeed.

 

[StewDogg11]

Leonard mind fucked Hagler for years leading up to this and somehow got Marvin to fight his fight.
I had it 7-5 Marvin, although I’ve had to 6-6 and 7-5 srl other times.

Not to mention he dictated the size of the ring and what gloves were used.