Guys who train, is it even possible to compete at this level w/o PEDs?

therealnod said:
This is almost identical to the argument being put forth by baseball fans ten years ago. It wasn't insane to think that someone could really be just that damn good. Of course we found out the truth...
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conclusion is... no one can be great without cheating ?
 
Metallicalabran said:
so people here is saying pro fighters must be on something because they have amazing cardio and amazing strenght

no one tought about how some people is genetically gifted ?? born to be stronger, faster, etc. Most of those people who are genetically gifted turn pro athlete because since early age they were gettin better results in sport with equal or sometimes LESS training compared to another kids who were not genetically gifted. ITS NOT CRAZY !!!!!!!!

So, if you are telling pro fighter must be FOR SURE on steroids because they are stronger and have better cardio than someone is not a pro fighter.... MAKES NO SENSE AT ALL.

there is a reason beacuse if we all train very hard Usain Bolt still gonna run faster than us, and believe me, is not because he uses peds and we dont
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People like you are so fukking gullible
 
In amateur boxing guys with 0-10 fights I already saw cheating with various steroids, diuretics and Epinephrin and thinking about hgh.
 
lorenzofertatta said:
SARMs, PPar agonists, blood doping, growth hormone secretagogues, peptides, designer steroids.... You guys have no idea how much modern, undetectable, stuff is out there. They work wonders for an athlete, trust me, there is no reason a top UFC fighter would stay natural when there is money involved.
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Yeah, I saw a show on TV years ago about it. One of the guests was a member of the international anti-doping agency and he said they are helpless, because the underground laboratories are so well equipped and they develop various designer steroids and other shit which is undetectable. However, this is why blood and urine of the Olympians is being frozen for 5-8 years and after a few months or years, they actually know what they're dealing with and they can find it.
 
JudoThrowFiasco said:
No, I think there is a problem.

But to the QUESTION the TS ask - I don't think it is not possible to compete while clean.

Again, the question was not "is there a problem with ped" but rather - can someone compete while not being on PEDs?

Fedor on PED's? BJ?
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you remember the bs fedor said?

that pride actually had drug testing

yeah

and BJ trained with those marinovich brothers that trained NFL guys. NFL guys
 
I saw or read about this documentary once where in football (soccer) the doctors just keep coming up with new and improved stuff. It's just really hard to keep up with everything. It is just like recreational drugs. You have all these new designer drugs wich aren't even illegal yet just because it is going so fast.

That said, with this new designer stuff they often know not what the effects in the long run are.. but would that be with new PEDs too?
 
I honestly don't believe it's possible without enhancers. I'm not specifically saying steroids or EPO just saying without help. The human body can not take the wars over and over. Guys like Cerrone kinda make me scratch my head. He's either incredibly lucky and never gets injured, takes painkillers to push through training injured, or he's the luckiest hardest guy on the planet. Guys like GSP and Cain I suspect the least because they've taken the amount of time required to heal that a normal person in great shape would when they got injured. When Silva came back so quickly the only thing on my mind was steroids. No way you come back from a double compound fracture that quickly at 40 without help. I don't hate on him for it but let's be realistic.

The one that's making me mad now is the urine testing for Aldo... like seriously guys URINE TESTING? I personally could get around that. Drawing blood is the least they could do.
 
So Fresh said:
That said, with this new designer stuff they often know not what the effects in the long run are.. but would that be with new PEDs too?
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The ones selling these things have no idea, nor do they care about the long term effects. Ive done a few of these compounds myself, mk-677, lgd -4033, cjc -1295 dac, and a few others, and it's definately a gamble. You gamble with your health, your life pretty much.
Many of these compounds, like the ppar agonist gw501516, was shown as promoting cancer in phase 2 studies and was subsequently dropped by glaxosmithkline.
It is now legally sold as a performance enhancing supplement by shady supp companies all over the US
 
therealnod said:
This is almost identical to the argument being put forth by baseball fans ten years ago. It wasn't insane to think that someone could really be just that damn good. Of course we found out the truth...
Click to expand...

To be fair, there have always been transcendental athletes and that has gone on to well before the days of PED's. Jesse Owens for example was a complete freak of nature. 100m, 200m, long jump and the 4x100M relay gold medals.

The main thing is that they're exceptional, once in a generation type athletes. And you just can't have as many guys (or girls) performing at near superhuman levels as there is today without a significant number of them being on PED's.

Is every top dog going to be on PED's? No. However, I wouldn't be shocked if a LOT of them were especially if they're doing exceptional athletic feats without a track record of high level athletics stretching back to their youth.

It's much more credible to believe that a teen or childhood athletic prodigy is going to be the best of the best than the person who peaked at a city or state level of competition is suddenly going to become some dominating beast.

Given how much emphasis there is on athletics starting in elementary school, the odds of a person slipping through the cracks all the way to adulthood who has truly world class athletic genetics is pretty dam slim.
 
Some funny responses in this thread. " I know everything there is to know about everything, so I say no."
 
clift said:
I honestly don't believe it's possible without enhancers. I'm not specifically saying steroids or EPO just saying without help. The human body can not take the wars over and over. Guys like Cerrone kinda make me scratch my head. He's either incredibly lucky and never gets injured, takes painkillers to push through training injured, or he's the luckiest hardest guy on the planet. Guys like GSP and Cain I suspect the least because they've taken the amount of time required to heal that a normal person in great shape would when they got injured. When Silva came back so quickly the only thing on my mind was steroids. No way you come back from a double compound fracture that quickly at 40 without help. I don't hate on him for it but let's be realistic.

The one that's making me mad now is the urine testing for Aldo... like seriously guys URINE TESTING? I personally could get around that. Drawing blood is the least they could do.
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Actually, I'm totally fine with him taking something only to recover from the surgery faster. Problem is that some guys are taking something their entire career and during training camps. These are two completely different things. Even the TRT was a joke, it was supposed to be for older men and for guys who because of some medical issue have low testosterone(most of them previous users so that's the only reason). Naturally, most of these guys were abusing TRT and were juiced to the gills. It's almost impossible to regulate all this shit with everything that's out there, sadly.
 
lorenzofertatta said:
The ones selling these things have no idea, nor do they care about the long term effects. Ive done a few of these compounds myself, mk-677, lgd -4033, cjc -1295 dac, and a few others, and it's definately a gamble. You gamble with your health, your life pretty much.
Many of these compounds, like the ppar agonist gw501516, was shown as promoting cancer in phase 2 studies and was subsequently dropped by glaxosmithkline.
It is now legally sold as a performance enhancing supplement by shady supp companies all over the US
Click to expand...
yes thats what i thought, it's a gamble
probably if it's your livelyhood, it worth to gamble
 
Vintersorg said:
Actually, I'm totally fine with him taking something only to recover from the surgery faster. Problem is that some guys are taking something their entire career and during training camps. These are two completely different things. Even the TRT was a joke, it was supposed to be for older men and for guys who because of some medical issue have low testosterone(most of them previous users so that's the only reason). Naturally, most of these guys were abusing TRT and were juiced to the gills. It's almost impossible to regulate all this shit with everything that's out there, sadly.
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I actually agree with you completely. I think of you have a life altering injury you should look after your body by any means nessesary. I don't blame Anderson for his usage but I think he should have taken more time off and fought clean. I know it would have been quite a bit longer but why risk tainting your whole career over that? I actually 100% support the usage of these banned substances if administered by a doctor to heal a major injury. Just take the required time off to fight clean when you've healed.

I do feel bad for one guy who had to deal with the TRT ban though. Bigfoot. He legitimately needs it to live healthily. I've researched it to the gills and have a cousin who's both a UFC fan and endocrinologist and he feels that Bigfoot is taking years off his life quite literally and likely will not be fighting much longer.
 
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Dispiriting but not surprising.

"The guys who aren't on something are just on something they can't test for yet."

Even assuming some guys are just Jones-level genetic freaks, they can't all be. How else is a normal guy going to hang with guys like that, if not by training more than the body can take without some kind of artificial help?
 
All I know is that Brock Lesnar is a genetic freak and was in no way on steroids during his UFC run.
 
They should just do more random testing and hand out 3 year bans and solved.
 
Of course it's possible. There are athletes at the top who are clean, but a lot of people will say they're in the minority. Guilty until proven guilty, in a way.

It's a shame that TRT gets a bad rap now. I know some guys in their late 30's, 40's, and even 50's that are prescribed the stuff and say it's pretty much life-changing to be able to feel young again, but it has a stigma and they feel guilty competing because of it.
 
I used to train and fight MMA 8 years ago. Back then I knew several guys from smaller shows who used roids. As training gets more competitive for bigger fights you need even more time to regenerate and heal up. This is the most important point. Fighting injuries and train almost to your fullest without wincing in pain or be unable to do so because of banged up body parts.

Is it possible? Yes for a few fights.
Is it likely? I guess 80% of guys who just have a few fights already tried something

Is it possible to maintain a word class level for many years? Almost impossible.
There are maybe a few lone soldiers out there who somehow manage to get through it, but 95% do need "help".
 
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