Guy Mezger and the "Evolution" theory

[Jewish Lightning]

You see lots of talk today about evolution and how much the sport has "evolved" and how the guys of today are too evolved and too skilled for the guys from 20 years ago.

This is number one bullshit brathers. Guy Mezger was the perfect example of how well rounded guys were at the highest level 20 years ago.

He was quick, he was athletic, he was a professional level kick boxer who had a solid jab and an impressive right hand and he threw a variety of kicks with both legs, low and high with speed and power. He also had good head movement and knew how to roll with strikes. These are all signs of a well rounded striker.

Some would argue that his grappliig was even better than his striking as he was a state champion wrestler, a brown belt in BJJ and a deep understanding of submission grappling from years of training with the Shamrocks at the Lions Den.

Mezger spent lots of time on the ground with prime Arona and Lil Nog and was never in any danger. He's only been submitted 3 times in 46 fights and had 6 submission wins of his own and submitted the likes of Tito Ortiz who had only been submitted one other time in his whole career by Mezgers training partner Frank Shamrock.

Not only was he technical, but he also had great heart and didn't shy away from a brawl and happily threw down, toe to toe with some of the biggest and deadliest hitters in his division.

Mezger was in tremendous shape and could fight at a high pace for a whole 10 minute first round and then put in two more 5 minute rounds at a decent pace.

When you put all these attributes together you have an evolved, well rounded and comprehensive fighter which could fight on the highest level in any era.

Sorry but the sport isnt so "evolved" that a guy like Guy Mezger didn't have what it takes to be in there with the likes of Anthony Smith, Brunson and Vettori. I don't buy that bullshit for a second.

Don't get me wrong there has certainly been an element of evolution on MMA, especially in the lighter divisions but its overblown to make the UFC seem like its more elite in terms of skill than it really is.

This obvious and clever marketing gimmick has worked wonders on contemporary UFC fans and its obvious because they're so dismissive and disrespectful of the previous eras and think men didnt know how to fight 20 years ago.

The truth is the HW and LHW divisions are weaker than the HW and LHW divisions from the last two generations and the MW division is weaker today than it was from 2010-2014.

I don't know why this is but it is and it just proves that the top guys from before are just as skilled as some of the top guys of today. Pushing the evolution theory down peoples throats doesn't change anything. Someone like Guy Mezger with his skillset from 20 years ago could easily mix it up with today's top 10 MWs.

Would he dominate everyone? Obviously not. He would probably have mixed results but he'd still be competitive and the sport isn't so "evolved" that he doesn't belong.

"Evolution" is over blown cap.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

@pankrat

 

[HavokHarmon]

I think that the bulk of the evolution has occured in training, guys have a way better understanding of how to train effectively than they did in the 90s and early 2000s

 

[Jewish Lightning]

I think that the bulk of the evolution has occured in training, guys have a way better understanding of how to train effectively than they did in the 90s and early 2000s

Partly true, partly speculative.

 

[BrockLesnarsTurtleBack]

Too long didn't read, but one exception doesn't disprove a general trend. Only idiots that aren't and weren't involved in MMA would ever claim that it hasn't evolved by leaps and bounds in the last 20 years.

 

[TriangleMonkey]

It was my pro debut, 2007 in Oklahoma.

I was up against one of Guys prospects from Lions Den

I had fucking Guy Mezger watch my entire “warm-up” routine with him arms crossed, eyebrows pointed down, staring at me the entire time from around 5-6ft away before my walk-out (he had other coaches warm up their guy).

I lost the fight due to other circumstances but the mind fuckery he did to me…….I grew up watching Guy long before my martial arts journey….

 

[Bork Neslar]

It's real

 

[biscuitsbrah]

Partly true, partly speculative.

Lol

 

[Deleted member 359865]

Apart from this being a terrible take, Mezger was a product of the Shamrock's and Lion's Den which was arguably the best camp/team at the time and an anomaly in terms of skills you could learn under them because of their experience in Japan which had already been doing vale tudo fights. Modern MMA being born in the US is pretty much a result of fights taking place in a cage, otherwise mixed style fights had long been underway in Japan

Also, Frank Shamrock was a well-rounded MMA fighter even before Mezger, however the sport has definitely evolved well beyond the skillset they presented. You now have guys like Izzy with pure Kickboxing backgrounds able to pick apart well-rounded guys like Whitaker, you have fighters that can literally do it all Usman. There are pure grapplers like Demian Maia, and Mackenzie that dominate through having enough boxing to get his hands on you. I'm barely scratching the surface here, not to mention just pure athletes or freaks of nature like Jon Jones.

No matter how well-rounded Mezger is the sport has evolved, and he would get destroyed by any of the guys I've mentioned here. Hell Frank Shamrock would stand a better chance because he has more tools in the shed, and look at what Nick Diaz did to him. Mezger was closer to a Forest Griffin who is the natural evolution of Mezger, most LHW's today have way more tools than Griffin had because they can train better, have better nutrition, and have coaches that are invested in seeing their fighters evolve. There's a reason the fight game passes guys up. Im not saying Mezger couldn't survive in today's landscape because he truly was a well-rounded guy however the game has definitely evolved, saying otherwise is a fallacy and low-key ignorant.

 

[Jewish Lightning]

Apart from this being a terrible take, Mezger was a product of the Shamrock's and Lion's Den which was arguably the best camp/team at the time and an anomaly in terms of skills you could learn under them because of their experience in Japan which had already been doing vale tudo fights. Modern MMA being born in the US is pretty much a result of fights taking place in a cage, otherwise mixed style fights had long been underway in Japan

Also, Frank Shamrock was a well-rounded MMA fighter even before Mezger, however the sport has definitely evolved well beyond the skillset they presented. You now have guys like Izzy with pure Kickboxing backgrounds able to pick apart well-rounded guys like Whitaker, you have fighters that can literally do it all Usman. There are pure grapplers like Demian Maia, and Mackenzie that dominate through having enough boxing to get his hands on you. I'm barely scratching the surface here, not to mention just pure athletes or freaks of nature like Jon Jones.

No matter how well-rounded Mezger is the sport has evolved, and he would get destroyed by any of the guys I've mentioned here. Hell Frank Shamrock would stand a better chance because he has more tools in the shed, and look at what Nick Diaz did to him. Mezger was closer to a Forest Griffin who is the natural evolution of Mezger, most LHW's today have way more tools than Griffin had because they can train better, have better nutrition, and have coaches that are invested in seeing their fighters evolve. There's a reason the fight game passes guys up. Im not saying Mezger couldn't survive in today's landscape because he truly was a well-rounded guy however the game has definitely evolved, saying otherwise is a fallacy and low-key ignorant.

Speculative nonsense. Anthony Smith is a top 5 LHW today. Anyone who wants to pretend like the sport is so "evolved" that Mezger didn't have what it takes to mix it up with the Anthony Smiths and Derek Brunsons of today is either blind or shillish.

 

[mister piscadinha]

"evolution of the sport" is a nice little idea that people want to believe because it sounds good, but it actually means nothing

there were revolutions, like starting training more than one martial art, use the cage or weaponize pace, but all this happened pretty early and NOTHING changed from 2000 to now

actually, one thing did change. we have smaller weight classes with top athletes because there is no competition from other sports for manlets(and those are the best weight classes)

 

[BrockLesnarsTurtleBack]

Speculative nonsense. Anthony Smith is a top 5 LHW today. Anyone who wants to pretend like the sport is so "evolved" that Mezger didn't have what it takes to mix it up with the likes of Anthony Smiths or Derek Brunsons of today is either blind or shillish.

Anthony Smith is a better MMA fighter than virtually anybody 20 years ago, apart from a freak of nature like Fedor.

 

[Jewish Lightning]

Anthony Smith is a better MMA fighter than virtually anybody 20 years ago, apart from a freak of nature like Fedor.

Shillish cap.

 

[Jewish Lightning]

"evolution of the sport" is a nice little idea that people want to believe because it sounds good, but it actually means nothing

there were revolutions, like starting training more than one martial art, use the cage or weaponize pace, but all this happened pretty early and NOTHING changed from 2000 to now

actually, one thing did change. we have smaller weight classes with top athletes because there is no competition from other sports for manlets(and those are the best weight classes)

Big facts.

 

[koquerelle]

It was my pro debut, 2007 in Oklahoma.

I was up against one of Guys prospects from Lions Den

I had fucking Guy Mezger watch my entire “warm-up” routine with him arms crossed, eyebrows pointed down, staring at me the entire time from around 5-6ft away before my walk-out (he had other coaches warm up their guy).

I lost the fight due to other circumstances but the mind fuckery he did to me…….I grew up watching Guy long before my martial arts journey….

You should ask a mod for a pro account.

 

[BrockLesnarsTurtleBack]

Shillish cap.

You just don't know what you're talking about.

 

[mister piscadinha]

Anthony Smith is a better MMA fighter than virtually anybody 20 years ago, apart from a freak of nature like Fedor.

lol, this guy would get submited by arona and knock the fuck out'ed by wanderlei

 

[Jewish Lightning]

lol, this guy would get submited by arona and knock the fuck out'ed by wanderlei

Big facts.

 

[Jewish Lightning]

It was my pro debut, 2007 in Oklahoma.

I was up against one of Guys prospects from Lions Den

I had fucking Guy Mezger watch my entire “warm-up” routine with him arms crossed, eyebrows pointed down, staring at me the entire time from around 5-6ft away before my walk-out (he had other coaches warm up their guy).

I lost the fight due to other circumstances but the mind fuckery he did to me…….I grew up watching Guy long before my martial arts journey….

Epic story. Thanks for sharing brother.

 

[BrockLesnarsTurtleBack]

"evolution of the sport" is a nice little idea that people want to believe because it sounds good, but it actually means nothing

there were revolutions, like starting training more than one martial art, use the cage or weaponize pace, but all this happened pretty early and NOTHING changed from 2000 to now

actually, one thing did change. we have smaller weight classes with top athletes because there is no competition from other sports for manlets(and those are the best weight classes)

Yup, nothing has changed from the days when Randy Couture trained boxing and wrestling separately, there was no such thing as MMA classes and figured out himself in the cage on the fight night how to combine it. Eeeeeverything is the same.