Guillotine Symposium

Drew Foster said:
I hit 4 or 5 of those Marcelo Guillotines tonight. I have a question though, that Robson Guillotine... what do people call that? I've heard Walsh choke, Monty Python choke. I've always just called it a Arm Triangle Guillotine.
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I am not sure. Robson just calls all his guillotine variations guillotines I think, which is funny. But that could be more from limited English than anything else, it is a really interesting choke and I love Robson's teaching style, he seems very detail oriented and excitable. I like the choke, I have yet to even attempt it..usually when I get in those situations it is a darce or anaconda for me. This choke seems similar to what ElBigSam is describing. Amrm-triangle guillotine seems fitting however.
 
Solidus Snake said:
The reverse guillotine looks really solid, it's a shame I can never seem able to set it up (less chances as I almost always train with the gi on)

The rare times we train without the gi I like the no-arm in basic one, gripping my hand with the other; but to tell the truth, in no-gi guillotines were always my kryptonite, always really afraid of them and I tapped a lot even against just strong, less techincal than me dudes. I would be curious to see how I'm managing this now as it's been almost an year since I roll no-gi last time.
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Reminds me a bit of the guillotine that Cowboy Cerrone is always trying and the one Jens Pulver locked in on Cub Swanson..Brutal looking when applied!
 
chino3 said:
that was the other reason he was looking at me like an asshole lol.
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Did you use a the hand in hand cupping grip and push your thumbs into the neck?

This grip?
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Because I just took my two hands in this position and put then right in my trachea right under the jaw line and pushed up and it made me gag. lol Doesn't feel good even when you do it to yourself. Is it a choke or pure pain move? Do guys go out from the 10 finger or just tap from pain? Inquiring minds want to know :)
 
TalkShowOnMute said:
You do know me well.


Well shit, that is an awesome thread with way cooler videos than mine. I just saw Balto or Drew talking recently about how we need more technique talk instead of When can I get my belt threads? And it reminded me that we used to talk about techniques for pages on end "back in the day."

I fail at the internet!
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No worries and yes, the threads recently have been terrible. At first I thought this was some kind of massive seminar on the guillotine somewhere... like the World Expo of guillotines... but alas

Feel free to move any of those vids here. The important thing is just that the resource is available. I suck at guillotines to be honest and don't attack with them enough.
 
Fedorzilla said:
No worries and yes, the threads recently have been terrible. At first I thought this was some kind of massive seminar on the guillotine somewhere... like the World Expo of guillotines... but alas

Feel free to move any of those vids here. The important thing is just that the resource is available. I suck at guillotines to be honest and don't attack with them enough.
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I wish they had a World Expo of Submissions. I would pay lots of money for that. Fuck Comic-Con.

No but seriously, as a whitebelt against other whites I was using guillotines left and right, that and triangles and kimuras. Now on my second year as a blue, I find I rarely use the kimura or guillotine. I have since started working the kimura back in with great results, but the guillotine is eluding me except when I roll against white belts with no real neck defense....I have caught one blue in a one armed guillotine from mount in the past year I think.....

I have to work them back in because it comes to a point where guys don't even expect them sometimes, like leglocks ;)

I remember a few years back guys would always say that guillos were beginners moves and they never worked at high-level, then Marcelo has proven them wrong. It is high-time that guys remember the original submissions that we learned first. We learned them first for a reason, they are simple and effective. Finding ways to effectively employ them higher up the jiu jitsu tree is now the challenge!

I would rather land 1 solid armbar or perfect guillotine than a thousand inverted flying ezekial backside kickflips.
 
TalkShowOnMute said:
I remember a few years back guys would always say that guillos were beginners moves and they never worked at high-level, then Marcelo has proven them wrong. It is high-time that guys remember the original submissions that we learned first. We learned them first for a reason, they are simple and effective. Finding ways to effectively employ them higher up the jiu jitsu tree is now the challenge!

I would rather land 1 solid armbar or perfect guillotine than a thousand inverted flying ezekial backside kickflips.
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not to detract from the inverted flying ezekial backside kickflips, but I completely agree. There is something Marcelo understands about openings for that submission that we can all learn from. I am getting ready for the Asian Open (gi) so I have done minimal no-gi work and that means guillotines are lower %. But, if anything it's a great threat to put into your opponents mind (along with loop chokes) to keep them on the defensive. As far as no gi... it's just something you have to work on and Marcelo's made it very clear that it's available a lot more than we think.
 
yes the one that robson is doing, i actually got on my laptop to see what you were talking about. hope you are happy, you made me do it.
 
Fedorzilla said:
not to detract from the inverted flying ezekial backside kickflips, but I completely agree. There is something Marcelo understands about openings for that submission that we can all learn from. I am getting ready for the Asian Open (gi) so I have done minimal no-gi work and that means guillotines are lower %. But, if anything it's a great threat to put into your opponents mind (along with loop chokes) to keep them on the defensive. As far as no gi... it's just something you have to work on and Marcelo's made it very clear that it's available a lot more than we think.
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This is very important to this thread. Marcelo has made it so that people never feel that their neck is safe, and it isn't. I've finally begun to crack the Guillotine code. I have a long way to go, but looking for opening has been one of my missions for this year. One of the most interesting things about his Guillotine is that every time I do it I get an instant tap. Much quicker than with any other choke or joint lock. I didn't even think about it before, but for tournaments or long rolling sessions, this is great because there's almost no long-term arm endurance required.
 
Man, I've never ever hit a guillotine in practice or competition...EVER.
 
Knock Out Ned said:
Man, I've never ever hit a guillotine in practice or competition...EVER.
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I rarely hit them during training. I hate it when people in training try for it the entire time rather than trying other ones instead of the same one the entire time
 
Knock Out Ned said:
Man, I've never ever hit a guillotine in practice or competition...EVER.
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Really? Try the Marcelo one that Arroyo shows. That one is MUCH stronger than any other Guillotine, and much easier to hit.

I don't even attempt the full closed guard traditional version anymore.
 
I'm gonna have to try for guillotines next time I attend class when my wrist feels better
 
Drew Foster said:
Really? Try the Marcelo one that Arroyo shows. That one is MUCH stronger than any other Guillotine, and much easier to hit.

I don't even attempt the full closed guard traditional version anymore.
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I'll study the videos when I get home tonight. Maybe a miracle will happen.
 
Drilled both the Marcelo and Robson set-ups today.
I usually go for arm in guillotines from the front headlock, so the "arm triangle" variation is making an easy transition into my game.

Haven't hit the Marcelo one live yet. Thinking of using it as part of passing HG to mount.
 
It's odd. I used to get a lot of guillotines, but since I went nuts in brabo, japanese tie, anaconda etc. variations I no longer think to look for the straight forward guillotine.
 
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