Guard - Who has the ball?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by b0b, Oct 28, 2005.

  1. b0b

    b0b Banned Banned

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    I have been training for about 3 weeks, and don't really know much. I know a couple of sweeps from my guard, but that is about it. When I have someone in my guard, who's job is it to push the pace? Most of the time I try the sweep, I give up position. In open mat, I have been getting to guard, getting under hooks, and either pulling my opponent down with all of my weight and holding them there, or if they are postured up, I hang on them until they finally break down.

    This gets boring, but effectively neutralizes them.
     
  2. RobT

    RobT Purple Belt

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    If you're training, then you should both be pushing the pace, all the time. By all means defend something the other person is trying, but why would you want to stall at all?

    I'm only new to BJJ (9 months) but I try to work constantly. Yeah, a lot of the time I'm being dominated, but I'm still trying for stuff.

    I'll work for sweeps, triangles, armbars, omoplatas, whatever I can from my back, and yeah, a lot of the time I'll end up in a worse position. I'm not going to learn anything from stalling though, and even when I lose position, every time it means I get a bit better at regaining guard.
     
  3. SmashiusClay

    SmashiusClay Avatar of Cyttorak

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    The person who has guard has a responsibility to attack and try to improve his position, the person inside guard should always be looking to pass. If you just sit there clinging to your oponent you wont learn anything but how to be a boring fighter and laying inside someone's guard make you a lazy bastard who's just scared to make a mistake and get tapped.

    Its always better to push the pace in practice and try to learn something than just lie there and cling on cos' you might get beaten.
     
  4. b0b

    b0b Banned Banned

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    I don't mind being beaten one bit, especially in open mat. If my opponent is in my guard, shouldn't they try to do something as well? Especially when I am rolling with higher belts?
     
  5. RobT

    RobT Purple Belt

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    Yeah, they should, but perhaps they're giving you the time to work at something?
     
  6. sanuces

    sanuces Orange Belt

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    if someone is in your guard....attack. don't wait for them to move, work on setting up techniques. if they start to moving or coming up on one foot, get to sweeping. if theyre posturing up and being lazy try to windmill->kimura->guillotine combo or any combo you can think of

    personally, when i first started and tried to work on my guard, i had no clue so i started attacking holes in a persons posture. for instance, if theyre elbows arent tight to my body, id snake my rm through to break their posture. it never did anything but it got me used to the idea of moving my hips while on my back. once you get the hips moving you can try exploiting other weaknesses in their posture
     
  7. SmashiusClay

    SmashiusClay Avatar of Cyttorak

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    Your original post said that you were just hanging onto your opponent and that "This gets boring, but effectively neutralizes them." the point I was trying to make was that this is a tactic that will teach you nothing and that while being constantly active may result in you losing position or getting tapped but will make you learn much quicker.
     
  8. RobT

    RobT Purple Belt

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    I try to keep my guard open as much as possible when rolling. The only time I will close it is either to settle things down so I can start to try to set something up, or as a last resort to stop someone passing my guard.
     
  9. b0b

    b0b Banned Banned

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    Thanks for the clarification. Sounds like sage advice. I am going to be training for a tournament on Dec. 10th and really stepping up my training in the next month. I will keep this in mind when I get to guard.
     
  10. SmashiusClay

    SmashiusClay Avatar of Cyttorak

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    Good luck, train hard and if all else fails in guard soiling yourself gives a great opening for attacks while your opponent recoils in horror.
     
  11. Satyricus

    Satyricus Brown Belt

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    I guess the one on the bottom position, since the guy on top obviously already did something to gain the top position.

    Laying under someone loses fights.
     
  12. Coach Couzo

    Coach Couzo Orange Belt

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    Who has the ball? Maybe the IBJJF can answer the question...

    From the 'INTERNATIONAL BRAZILIAN JIU-JITSU FEDERATION' rules:

    During closed guard (when the athlete on the bottom has his legs wrapped around his opponent
     
  13. if you're on top in guard at a tournament, you've most likely got the takedown and this means the bottom man has to score or lose.

    but if he pulled guard, the first one to pass or sweep gets the points.
     
  14. DMcKayBJJ

    DMcKayBJJ Blue Belt

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    If you're in someone's guard, you gotta pass. The bottom guy essentially has more control, and the top guy isn't going to be able to do much. Even in MMA, the bottom guy can very easily close the gap and neutralize strikes from the top guy.
    If you have someone in your guard, you have access to sweeps and attacks, and should use them to stay aggressive. Royce obviously showed us all that one can quite easily end fights from the guard, particularly if your opponent is much bigger than you and thus difficult to sweep.
    In practice, stalling of any kind is lame. Who cares if you lose position while trying something from the guard? That's why they call it practice. In fact, if you were ever to be in a real fight, you'd have to be the aggressor from the bottom anyway in order to figure out a way to end/escape the fight.
     
  15. Truculent

    Truculent Orange Belt

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    its important to work from your back a lot. When I find myself holding someone in guard for too long I like to work something; it beats the hell out've sitting there stalling, in which case all you're learning is how to stall more efficiently.
     
  16. Commissar

    Commissar Gold Belt

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    You're sparring. When you spar, yes, you want to win, but your main goal should be to try different moves and techniques than you would do in a competition. You don't want to stall at all. Whats the point of neutralizing your opponent, if you're not doing anything either?
    Its good when you give up position, because it allows you to train that escape. I've given my back so much in the first stretch of my training, I have utterly amazing back defense. Ignoring the points, I don't mind trying something and giving my back, because I know the escape well enough that I'm confident I won't get tapped.
     

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