GSP... The most talented MMA practitioner to grace the sport?

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by FoghornLeghorn, May 23, 2014.

  1. FoghornLeghorn

    FoghornLeghorn Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    I used the word 'Practitioner' in another thread, and someone made an interesting comment on it.

    That thread was questioning the best American.

    With that being said, is GSP the best MMA Practitioner there's ever been?

    The man reigned Welterweight, one of the more stacked divisions in UFC history. He fought power hitters, solid wrestlers, BJJ black belts, accomplished technical strikers and muay thai experts. He beat all of them.

    He had no weaknesses, he could outstrike you on the feet, take you down and grapple-**** you, then whip your arm behind your head all in the same round.

    Was he boring? Yes. Did I wish for him to lose in each fight I watched? Yes. Did I cheer for Hendricks like a madman? You betcha.

    But when it comes down to it, boring as his style may have been, he won each and every time, minus the few losses he avenged of course. When he was grappling, wrestling and 'stalling' (for lack of better word), there is nothing that his opponent wanted more than to get up. But they couldn't.

    When he hung on the outside, stepping into quick jabs and crosses, throwing long kicks to keep a smart range and land powerful strikes, there's nothing his opponents wanted more than to knock his head off. But they couldn't.

    And when I watched Robbie fight Hendricks, I was entertained. But that was an ugly, sloppy fight. It lacked the finesse, the technique that made every GSP fight so impressive. It was exciting, but after the show was over it made me appreciate just how good GSP really was.


    He was so insanely talented in all aspects of the sport, an all around perfect fighter. I think if you take any other fighter there's ever been, and morph them to the same weight as GSP, the man wins each and every time.

    Perhaps, now that he's (potentially) retired, we can start giving him some of the credit he deserved. Without having to worry about his boring matches coming up, can we start to admit his greatness, or are we just gonna keep on sherdoggin'?

    I'm not saying he's the greatest, Fedor and Silva seemed like invincible gods when they were on their streaks, in their prime. GSP always felt human, but that makes it that much more impressive. He wasn't magic, he wasn't some titan or machine. He was just a man who only knew how to win.



    TL;DR:

    GSP was seriously f***ing good, talented in all aspects of MMA. Hendricks v Lawler showed the talent gap in technique between WelterWeight and GSP. He's not the greatest, but perhaps he was the best? Fedor and Silva seemed invincible, GSP was just a man who knew how to win. With his technique and talent, was GSP the greatest Practitioner of MMA?
     
  2. BrainLeakage

    BrainLeakage Red Belt

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    1 - Fedor
    2 - Silva
    3 - GSP

    (same as my GOAT ranking)
     
  3. countswagula

    countswagula Gold Belt

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    He's p. gud
     
  4. thinkandbeslim

    thinkandbeslim Green Belt

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    While I am a huge GSP fan, his inability to get the submission against Dan Hardy always sticks in my mind for some reason.
     
  5. FoghornLeghorn

    FoghornLeghorn Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    I can understand Fedor's trumping him, I will never argue anybody on Fedor's greatness, but Silva's lack of defensive or offensive wrestling has always been a rather large weakness that he made up for with slick BJJ.

    Is it a huge glaring weakness? No, he made up for it and still won impressively a considerable number of times. But it was a weakness in his techniques, and I'd put GSP above him on this particular list for that reason.

    GSP was an accomplished enough striker that it wasn't a weakness for him, the same can't be said for Silva's wrestling. He wasn't a bad grappler, and was only outgrappled by the best, but it's still a ***** in the armor.


    And as for the Hardy submission, the only thing stopping him from snapping Hardy's arm was compassion. Hardy bit down on his mouthpiece and bared through it, but there was nothing GSP could've done better but break the shoulder.
     
  6. Steve08

    Steve08 American Fedor Belt

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    In terms of skill and completeness, yes of course Georges St-Pierre is the most skilled and well-rounded fighter we have ever seen. Fedor is the second.
     
  7. GearSolidMetal

    GearSolidMetal I'm here to chew bubblegum and bang your mom. Platinum Member

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    It's between GSP and Fedor in terms of talent.

    But I'd definitely give GSP the 'most improved' title between the two because if you keep in ming GSP started his career in MMA as a stand-up karate fighter, and then became the most accomplished wrestler... making national college wrestling champions his bitch... without even wrestling in high school, says alot.
     
  8. Check my sig.

    Stats below have been updated post UFC 167.




    [​IMG]



    Georges “Rush” St-Pierre (age 33):
     Won 12 UFC title fights (1st place*Source), 9 of those were defenses (2nd place*Source). He won more title fights and had more defenses than Fedor did in Pride, and his record in UFC title fights is 12-2 which is better than Silva.
     Georges was a UFC champion for over 6 years and 3 months (multiple title reigns)(2nd place*Source)
     Georges won 19 fights in the UFC (1st place*Source). He also won more fights than Fedor won in Pride
     St-Pierre's UFC win percentage is .905 (19 wins in 21 fights*Source); his overall win percentage is .926 (25 wins in 27 fights*Source). Both percentages are better than Fedor and Anderson
     GSP’s longest consecutive win streak in the UFC was 12 (2nd place*Source)

    Strength of schedule:
     Georges had 14 UFC title bouts (2nd place*Source). More than both Andy and Fedor. 59% of the fights in his entire professional career have been for a title (16 title fights out of 27 total fights). Better than both Fedor and Andy
     GSP has 17 wins against opponents that were ranked in the top 5 at the time of the fight (1st place*CoffeeandBeer's thread). GSP has almost as many wins against opponents that were ranked in the top 5 at the time of the fight as both Anderson and Fedor combined.
     Georges has 17 wins against opponents that were ranked in the top 10 at the time of the fight (1st place*Rester's thread). GSP fought in the UFC's WW division that historically had a much deeper talent pool than the UFC's MW division where Silva fought and Pride's HW division where Fedor fought.
     St-Pierre’s record vs. current/future UFC hall of famers is 4 wins and 1 loss (2-0 vs. BJ Penn, and 2-1 vs. Matt Hughes) *Source
     GSP has 6 wins against former UFC champs (Hughes 2x, BJ 2x, Condit, and Serra) *Source. Sherk and Johny hadn’t been UFC champions at the time of their fights with Georges.
     He defeated 3 BJJ world medalists (BJ 2x, Serra, Shields), 2 NCAA D1 national wrestling champs (Johny, Kos 2x), the best MMA bottom game (Condit, Diaz), the best MMA top game (Hughes 2x, Fitch, Shields), the best judoka (Karo), the best kickboxers (Alves, Condit), and the best boxers (BJ, Nick) at WW *Source
     He routed seven fighters that have received votes on the Yahoo writers poll for P4P best – including Hughes (2x), Fitch, Baby Jay (2x), Alves, Shields, Condit, and Diaz. No other champ in the history of their P4P poll can say that
     GSP finished the phenomenal double digit win streaks of Fitch (16*Source), Shields (15*Source), and Sherk (12*Source)

    Other Significant Stats:
     Future hall of famer (first ballot)
     Professional MMA career: 11+ years (January 25, 2002 – TBD)*Source
     Won a total of 6 UFC of the night bonuses (tied for 10th place*Source): FOTN 4x, SOTN 1x, KOTN 1x
     Rank on the UFC’s official top 10 significant stats lists (most well rounded):
    Striking
    • Total strikes landed - 2,523 (1st place*Source)
    • Significant strikes landed - 1,254 (1st place*Source)
    • Knockdowns landed - 8 (tied for 9th place*Source)
    • Significant strike defense - 73.0% (4th place*Source)
    • Strike differential - 2.39 (4th place*Source)
    Wrestling*Click here
    • Takedowns landed - 87 (1st place*Source)
    • Takedown accuracy - 74% (1st place*Source)
    BJJ
    • Most guard passes (1st place*Source)
    • Submissions attempted - 23 (tied for 5th place*Source)
     Total fight time in the UFC – experience in the octagon (1st place*Source)
     St-Pierre won 33 consecutive rounds in the UFC (1st place*Source)
     GSP is one of six UFC champions (GSP, Hughes, Couture, Velasquez, Mir, and Sylvia) to rise to the Top of the Mountain and regain his title after being knocked off. Neither Fedor nor Andy were able to climb back to the summit and become King again like Georges did.
     Georges is the only current/future hall of fame legendary champion that can say he holds wins over every opponent he has ever faced (avenged all losses)*Source
     All-time bestselling MMA PPV King (and it's not even close) – real fans vote with their wallets and the message is clear*Dana White
     There is a reason he headlined the UFC's historic events such as UFC 94 (first and only Battle of Champions), UFC 100 (landmark 100th event), UFC 129 (stadium show that set the North American MMA attendance record and the worldwide live gate record for an MMA event*Source), and the UFC 167 (20th anniversary show). He is the face of the sport.
     GSP is undefeated when fighting in a ring and equally dominant in a cage. Fedor had more losses in a cage, and Anderson had more losses in a ring, than Georges had throughout his entire professional career.
     UFC Compensation: GSP “Game Over” money (1st place*Source #1*Source #2 - Dana White)




    Since returning from ACL surgery, GSP won as many UFC title fights as the following fighters won throughout their entire careers: Jens Pulver, Renan Barao, Rhonda Rousey, Brock Lesnar, Rich Franklin, Andrei Arlovski, Frankie Edgar and all the champs that only won only 1 or 2 title fights. *Source




    Since returning from ACL surgery, GSP defended his UFC title as many times as the following fighters defended throughout their entire careers: Baby Jay, Renan Barao, Ben Henderson, Frank Edgar, Demetrious Johnson and all the champs that defended only once or twice.*Source




    GSP won as many fights in the UFC as the following fighters won in Pride: Dan Henderson, Rampage Jackson, and Sakuraba.




    :cool:
     
  9. Steve08

    Steve08 American Fedor Belt

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    But Fedor began his career as an olympic alternate level judoka, and went on to outstrike the greatest HW kickboxer in mma history while having no "striking pedigree" of his own :wink:
     
  10. ShagginTurtles

    ShagginTurtles Brown Belt

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    As a huge GSP fan I want to say yes, but I think he's simply the hardest worker combined with a lot of talent

    Guys like Silva and Jones show a lot of talent and are my #2 and #3 guys for this but honestly #1 for me is Penn

    People forget what he accomplished despite fighting guys way bigger than him and he was notorious for not putting in a lot of work into training

    Penn is pure talent and is probably the LW GOAT, former WW champ, Youngest BJJ Champ (I think)
     
  11. GearSolidMetal

    GearSolidMetal I'm here to chew bubblegum and bang your mom. Platinum Member

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    I respect Crocop, but I'd rank JDS and Cain's striking over his (in all their prime).

    Fedor was a Russian HW Sambo champion, so he was well versed in striking.
     
  12. The ScorpioN

    The ScorpioN "GET OVER HERE!"

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    GSP has surpassed both Silva and Fedor. Your reasoning must be extremely subjective.
     
  13. FoghornLeghorn

    FoghornLeghorn Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    Hmm, I would be inclined to agree with you. I could see BJ taking a high level on this list with all the raw talent he possessed, especially being known primarily as a "wasted talent". Becoming a two-division champion while undersized and having everyone feel his potential was never realized says quite a bit about the fighter. Valid point
     
  14. ShagginTurtles

    ShagginTurtles Brown Belt

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    But but GSP never tries to finish fights! /s
     
  15. Steve08

    Steve08 American Fedor Belt

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    Sambo striking is extremely basic, and pretty much only exists to set-up takedowns. Fedor might have learned his casting punch (right hand lead + weave head to right underhook) there, but that's probably it. Sambo is basically wrestling + judo with strikes allowed, but it's not as if most sambists aren't like 90% grappling-based. In short, Fedor was a strong grappler who proved that, with his craftiness, he could stand with any man alive.

    He was a 4x world champ (2002 2x, 2005, 2007) though yes.

    Furthermore, I simply cannot agree. JDS is a purely offensive fighter with almost no defense of which to speak of, and Cain Velasquez's striking is individually quite limited and only exists to set-up his takedowns. Only JDS would have a chance against Cro Cop in the ring, and even he would have a stark disadvantage in movement and kicking. Whoever could back the other man up would probably win, but Cro Cop was also much better at using footwork to avoid strikes than JDS ever has been.
     
  16. iwannabeadored

    iwannabeadored Blue Belt

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    gsp did make some technical mistakes. If he did it correctly the shoulder would have snapped
     
  17. Steve08

    Steve08 American Fedor Belt

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    yeah he didn't put his hips in, but that's such a white belt mistake, and GSP such a legitimate black belt that you have to wonder if he did it intentionally, pretty much just to provide the "semblance" of trying to finish.

    Armbars do not attack the shoulder joint though.
     
  18. I saw you caught he is in the top 5 all time for submission attempts but don't gloss over the fact he is also in the top 10 all time for knockdowns:)
     
  19. giovanni002

    giovanni002 Silver Belt

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    It's because Dan Hardy doesn't know the meaning of tap. ^__^

     
  20. GearSolidMetal

    GearSolidMetal I'm here to chew bubblegum and bang your mom. Platinum Member

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    I think Lesnar, Big Nog, and Big Foot would disagree with the bolded section.

    I'm still of the opinion that GSP's improvement in wrestling trumps Fedor's improvement in striking, especially when you incorporate which one was used more effectively throughout their career. But I'd say it's not a issue to go on arguing about for pages.

    Let's agree that they're the two most improved MMA fighters in their respected tallents.
     

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