GSP is not GOAT pick for mma fans out of North America

Vladimir Putin said:
Both Khabib and Abdulmanap Nurmagomedovs have gone on record saying GSP is the greatest... And, according to my knowledge of geography, Dagestan/Russia is not in North America.
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Yeah, casually the one who resembles his style and, most importantly, the money and legacy fight that Khabib aims the most
 
GSP and Fedor would be the most common answers I think
 
pankrat said:
Info rather than opinion.
You don't listen any mma fan from Euope or Asia calling GSP the best ever; certainly one of the best, top5 in anybody's book but not #1.

The most consensual answer is Anderson Silva; just like Fedor was a decade ago.
Jones is more highly regarded than GSP too; if his professsionalism were in Silva's level...had GOAT potential.

GSP was great and likely a better role model but finishing ability weights more than that when discussing the best ever at fighing.

PD - DJ is in every goat discussion at least among hardcore fans.
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Lol
I’m from Europe and i consider GSP as the undisputed GOAT.
Most of the people that I know and watch MMA consider GSP as ths GOAT too.
 
pankrat said:
Info rather than opinion.
You don't listen any mma fan from Euope or Asia calling GSP the best ever; certainly one of the best, top5 in anybody's book but not #1.

The most consensual answer is Anderson Silva; just like Fedor was a decade ago.
Jones is more highly regarded than GSP too; if his professsionalism were in Silva's level...had GOAT potential.

GSP was great and likely a better role model but finishing ability weights more than that when discussing the best ever at fighing.

PD - DJ is in every goat discussion at least among hardcore fans.
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You’re claim is so well sourced and researched.
 
pankrat said:
Info rather than opinion.
You don't listen any mma fan from Euope or Asia calling GSP the best ever; certainly one of the best, top5 in anybody's book but not #1.

The most consensual answer is Anderson Silva; just like Fedor was a decade ago.
Jones is more highly regarded than GSP too; if his professsionalism were in Silva's level...had GOAT potential.

GSP was great and likely a better role model but finishing ability weights more than that when discussing the best ever at fighing.

PD - DJ is in every goat discussion at least among hardcore fans.
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Oh I see. Did a survey in Europe did you?
 
I want to address comments by several people in this forum.
1) Canada has 1/10th the population of the US and even then Hockey is our biggest sports (In the NHL Canada has the vast majority of players) so no big surprise that there are not a lot of Canadians in MMA. We do however have one of the greatest (if not the greatest) in GSP.
2) I am in my 50s and I still look like GSP only bigger and I have never touched steroids in my life. This concept is foreign to any of you who never get off the couch and put down the doritos bag. People who are fat and lazy cant imagine that people can get ripped naturally.
 
vik93 said:
Oh ya, I'm sure you polled everyone. Silva was a cheat, name a cheat that is considered the GOAT in any sport.

Every hardcore MMA fan I've spoken with puts GSP at the top. Now, if you ride a certain fighter's dick or you watch a lot of pro wrestling your opinion probably differs. But if you're a sports fan, you understand what GSP is. Titles matter. Wins matter. Being untainted matters. Leaving at the top matters. Two divisions matter. Avenging all your losses matter. People forget or weren't watching when GSP competed. Welterweight was the most stacked division in the sport and he ruled with an iron fist.. All of the that cements his status, again unless you're one of the fans I described above.
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576ec66852bcd024008cbc3c
 
Wait. People have differing opinions on who is MMA GOAT? Shocking!
 
Ironnik94 said:
View attachment 751759 View attachment 751761
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We’ve been reading Muscle and Fitness in our basements for years now and we don’t look like that. He’s obviously on something. You’d think after having a subscription for 5 years we’d see some difference if it was even possible natty. Hell, I’m still stuck on 2 cases of Mountain Dew and 3 bags of Cheetos on my daily loaded carry back down the stairs to the basement. I don’t feel like my max will increase unless I use PEDs like these muscle guys.
 
He is in fact ONE of the GOAT's. #1 or not is up the individual person. He may not be your number one, and that is fine, but to say he is not in the dscussion is foolish.
 
Anderson Silva has no TD defense.

I'm outside US and rank GSP higher than Anderson.
But Fedor is GOAT
 
Ironnik94 said:
@pankrat
Fought in a division which is way more stacked than middleweight, let alone light heavyweight and literally beat everyone he's stepped in the cage against, but allegedly is no legitimate GOAT candidate.
<36>
Sure thing, bud.
(Coming from a german, by the way.)
Heights4.jpg

Fought in the weightclass with arguably the second largest talentpool ever and his UFC-wins looked like this:
  1. Pariyan, at the time 10-2 , 21yo (GSP: 22yo)
  2. Hieron, at the time 4-0, 27yo (GSP: 23yo)
  3. Miller, at the time 11-3, 24yo (GSP: 24yo)
  4. Trigg, at the time 12-3, 33yo (GSP: 24yo)
  5. Sherk, at the time 31-1-1, 32yo (GSP: 24yo)
  6. Penn, at the time 10-2-1, 27yo (GSP: 25 yo)
  7. Hughes I, at the time 41-4, 33yo (GSP: 25yo)
  8. Koscheck I, at the time 9-1, 29yo (GSP: 26yo)
  9. Hughes II, at the time 42-5, 34yo (GSP: 26yo)
  10. Serra, at the time 10-4, 34yo (GSP: 26yo)
  11. Fitch, at the time 19-2, 30yo (GSP: 27yo)
  12. Penn II, at the time 13-4-1, 30yo (GSP: 28yo)
  13. Alves, at the time 17-5, 25yo (GSP: 28yo)
  14. Hardy, at the time 23-6, 28yo (GSP: 29yo)
  15. Koscheck II, at the time 15-4, 33yo (GSP: 29yo)
  16. Shields, at the time 26-4-1, 32yo (GSP: 29yo)
  17. Condit, at the time 28-5, 28yo (GSP: 31yo)
  18. Nick Diaz, at the time 26-7, 29yo (GSP: 31yo)
  19. Johny Hendricks, at the time 15-1, 30yo (GSP: 32yo)
  20. Michael Bisping, at the time 30-7, 38yo (GSP: 37yo)
  • The guys he has won against were on average 29.85 years old.
  • When they've faced GSP, they had an average win-percentage of 85% - in comparison: the opponents Demetrious Johnson has won against had won on average 83% of their fights, Jon Jones' opponents' have won 81% of their fights, Jose Aldo's opponents have won 80% of their fights, Anderson Silva's opponents have won 79% of their fights and Emelianenko's opponents have on average won 72% of their fights when he beat them.
Another thing, which is important when looking at the level of opposition, is the number of wins and losses the beaten opponents of the above mentioned fighters had when they've beat them until the point where they've started losing repeatedly. Note: I have left draws out:

Mighty Mouse's UFC/WEC/One opponents:
312-64 in 20 wins. (30-3 record)

Jose Aldo's UFC/WEC opponents:
317-78 in 18 wins. (28-4 record)

Georges St-Pierre's UFC opponents:
392-70 in 20 wins. (26-2 record)

Anderson Silva's UFC opponents:
298-75 in 16 wins. (33-4 record)

Jon Jones' UFC opponents:
362-83 in 20 wins. (26-1 record)

Fedor Emelianenko's opponents:
362-139 in 31 wins. (31-1 record)

So if we base the strength of the opposition these guys have beaten on how high their win-percentage was when they've been beaten, the ranking looks like this:
  1. Georges St-Pierre (85%)
  2. Demetrious Johnson (83%)
  3. Jon Jones (81%)
  4. Jose Aldo (80%)
  5. Anderson Silva (79%)
  6. Fedor Emelianenko (72%)
Ranking the opponents of each fighter by their average experience (number of pro fights):
  1. Anderson Silva: 23 (23.3)
  2. Georges St-Pierre: 23 (23.1)
  3. Jon Jones: 22 (22.3)
  4. Jose Aldo: 22 (21.9)
  5. Demetrious Johnson: 19 (18.8)
  6. Fedor Emelianenko: 16 (16.2)
But at what point in their career did those fighters losses happen? At which age and at what level of experience? And against who?

Demetrious Johnson
1st loss: UD, 23 yo, 10 pro fights exp, B. Pickett's record then: 18-4, now: 25-14
2nd loss: UD, 25 yo, 15 pro fights exp, D. Cruz' record then: 18-1, now: 22-2
3rd loss: SD, 31 yo, 29 pro fights exp, H. Cejudo's record then: 12-2, now: 15-2

Jose Aldo
1st loss: Sub, 19 yo, 7 pro fights exp, L. Azevedo's record then: 6-2, now: 17-9
2nd loss: KO, 29 yo, 26 pro fights exp, C. McGregor's record then: 18-2, now: 22-4
3rd loss: TKO, 30 yo, 28 pro fights exp, M. Holloway's record then: 17-3, now: 21-5
4th loss: TKO, 31 yo, 29 pro fights exp, M. Holloway's record then: 18-3, now: 21-5

Georges St-Pierre
1st loss: Sub, 23 yo, 7 pro fights exp, M. Hughes' record then: 36-4, now: 45-9
2nd loss: TKO, 25 yo, 14 pro fights exp, M. Serra's record then: 9-4, now: 11-7

Anderson Silva
1st loss: UD, 25 yo, 2 pro fights exp, L. Azeredo's record then: 2-1, now: 15-10
2nd loss: Sub, 28 yo, 12 pro fights exp, D. Takase's record then: 4-7, now: 12-15
3rd loss: Sub, 29 yo, 16 pro fights exp, R. Chonan's record then: 7-4, now: 22-13
4th loss: DQ, 30 yo, 19 pro fights exp, Y. Okami's record then: 13-2, now: 36-14

Jon Jones
1st loss: DQ, 22 yo, 9 pro fights exp, M. Hamill's record then: 7-2, now: 13-8

Fedor Emelianenko
1st loss: TKO, 24 yo, 4 pro fights exp, T. Kosaka's record then: 19-10, now: 27-20


So far so good, but what possible taints the record of those fighters?
  • Demetrious Johnson: n/a
  • Jose Aldo: maybe that urine test? idk.
  • Georges St-Pierre: allegedly had is cornerman rub vaseline on his back (https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2009/2/2/744379/more-on-the-georges-st-pie)
  • Anderson Silva: has tested positive for banned substances multiple times
  • Jon Jones: has tested positive for banned substances multiple times
  • Fedor Emelianenko: n/a

Conclusion: you don't have to like Georges St-Pierre (or his fans) but his resume couldn't be further from overrated.
Side note for the Fedor fans: the fact that he's beaten lots of sub-par opponents between the all-time greats he has beaten does of course "taint" his record in the terms of the very statistics i've listed here, so i just want to say that he's in my top three best/greatest fighters of all time, consisting of him, St-Pierre and Mighty Mouse.
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Such amount of data and not even asses finishing ability, the ultimate goal of fighting.

The compute of W/L in their opponent's record is absurd imo. Many legends don't have the cleanest resume and are still huge wins, much more so when they are by stoppage. Henderson or Belfort are perfect examples.

Anderson actually competed at WW through all his 20s - he competed at WW and claimed the MW UFC championship the same year - has beat top contenders from #1 ranked Sakurai at 168lbs to 205 chamions - has gone to a decision against HW and LHW champ Cormier with 40 years old in short notice

The talk about MW being weak while WW was in another league is false. Many of Anderson's opponents would have made a run to WW just as they did at MW - some actually did - or they were legit LHW contenders making the cut - weight classes exist for a reason and fighting a bigger guy is tough challenge.

Match Anderson's opponents with GSP's, at their normal weight, and would see who are the tougher row of challengers - let's remind Anderson fought at WW until 30+ years old, we are not comparing a HW with a LW
 
pankrat said:
Info rather than opinion.
You don't listen any mma fan from Euope or Asia calling GSP the best ever; certainly one of the best, top5 in anybody's book but not #1.

The most consensual answer is Anderson Silva; just like Fedor was a decade ago.
Jones is more highly regarded than GSP too; if his professsionalism were in Silva's level...had GOAT potential.

GSP was great and likely a better role model but finishing ability weights more than that when discussing the best ever at fighing.

PD - DJ is in every goat discussion at least among hardcore fans.
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G.o.a.t. is a biased opinion, regardless if it comes from your grandma, a hardcore fan, a knowledgeable person or a casual.
 
pankrat said:
Such amount of data and not even asses finishing ability, the ultimate goal of fighting.
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While I agree finishing is something to consider, winning is the ultimate goal. Ask pretty much any fighter and see if they'd rather lose, or get a decision win. Of course they WANT the finish, but at the end of the day they will take the win regardless.
 
suffersystem said:
He is in fact ONE of the GOAT's. #1 or not is up the individual person. He may not be your number one, and that is fine, but to say he is not in the dscussion is foolish.
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Fair enough, let's edit the tittle
 
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