GSP and the GOAT discussion vs. confirmed PED users.

[ZoSo]

Gsp has had one of the most immaculate careers in MMA history, cleaned out his division 3 times consecutively and moved up in weight to capture the middleweight title, albeit against a champion many consider to be inadequate, after a multi year layoff. I personally believe he his the greatest MMA persona of all time.

But what I can't seem to wrap my head around is individuals who believe MMA artists who have had just as impressive careers with the taint of performance enhancing drugs attributed to their names reach his status.

Is this just a blatant ignorance of the rules and the laws of MMA to satisfy their own personal heroes the glory that they would have achieved without the blemish, and this is where the crux of my inquiry lies, of rule breaking.

 

[GiSP]

That’s what makes GSP special. He didn’t have to cheat to accomplish anything he did.

That’s way more impressive than what the cheaters did.

 

[L0ki]

It's to squeeze their heroes into the spot.

I used to be pro steroids back in the Pride days but since then, one of my bachelor's of science majors is Biology.

When they showed me the study, that had been repeated numerous times....

The study had 2 groups:

Group 1 didn't diet and exercise but was given steroids.

Group 2 dieted and exercised but with no steroids.


After 2 months, group 1 gained 13 lbs. of lean muscle and group 2 gained 7 lbs.

The benefits are staggering. It's pretty much a different person. Just the rate of recovery, the sheer strength, volume of muscle, additional weight, etc.


After studying, I switched sides because I was off and definitely didn't know PED's helped that much.

Hard to give someone full credit with that much of outside assistance unless personal bias just overweighs that logic.

 

[ZoSo]

I am studying the effects of PEDs in my major of Kinesiology and the benefits are absolutely staggering. Enough to make you take a few steps backwards, literally.

Why ignore this? Can i get someone to tell me why they would do this? Ignore this massive illegitimate and massive advantage their heroes have indulged in?

 

[TR1]

It def puts GSP and Fedor above certain other juicers.

But GSP's shredded physique year round raises some eyebrows.

 

[Saint John]

Confirmed PED users are disqualified from any GOAT or HOF discussions.

 

[Talon81]

It def puts GSP and Fedor above certain other juicers.

But GSP's shredded physique year round raises some eyebrows.

Conclusion: Fedor. I agree
"But PRIDE encouraged PED use"
So at WORST, Fedor dominated an equal playing field of other legends.

 

[ZoSo]

But GSP's shredded physique year round raises some eyebrows.

GSP looks beast I admit, but given his publicly disclosed training regimen and personality it doesn't seem out of the the realm of possibility to achieve what he has physiologically speaking. (Though it is pushing it, but then again GSP does push it)

That's not my point, other fighter have had their proof is in the pudding moment. Yet GSP is bundled into that exact same group because he is what a disciplined athlete should look like without being tainted with the stain of PEDs.

 

[TR1]

GSP looks beast I admit, but given his publicly disclosed training regimen and personality it doesn't seem out of the the realm of possibility to achieve what he has physiologically speaking. (Though it is pushing it, but then again GSP does push it)

That's not my point, other fighter have had their proof is in the pudding moment. Yet GSP is bundled into that exact same group because he is what a disciplined athlete should look like without being tainted with the stain of PEDs.

Yeah I mean I am not accusing him of nor do I think he conclusively roided, it is more the fact that given his look AND performance in a sport where we know for fact PEDs are rampant...to be at that level and not take anything at all seems impossible for a champ, just my honest IMO.

Some do it more seriously than others, and there is something to be said for never having pulsed drugs or made ridiculous statements then backtrack about penis pills...

EDIT: Of course physique doesn't necessarily mean anything, I mean Barnett looks like a chump, but is a great fighter and juicer extraordinaire.

 

[NoSmilez]

I can't give GSP any USADA credit since he only fought one time under that type of testing. He did get gyno surgery during his off time though.

 

[Egészségére!]

because you could've started the exact same thread on a cycling forum after Lance Armstrong's second "retirement" and we all know how that turned out

 

[ZoSo]

because you could've started the exact same thread on a cycling forum after Lance Armstrong's second "retirement" and we all know how that turned out

This isn't a cycling forum. This is an MMA forum we don't consider cycling athletes with regards to the initial question I posed.

 

[Al Fondy]

Gsp has had one of the most immaculate careers in MMA history, cleaned out his division 3 times consecutively and moved up in weight to capture the middleweight title, albeit against a champion many consider to be inadequate, after a multi year layoff. I personally believe he his the greatest MMA persona of all time.

But what I can't seem to wrap my head around is individuals who believe MMA artists who have had just as impressive careers with the taint of performance enhancing drugs attributed to their names reach his status.

Is this just a blatant ignorance of the rules and the laws of MMA to satisfy their own personal heroes the glory that they would have achieved without the blemish, and this is where the crux of my inquiry lies, of rule breaking.

100%

 

[Egészségére!]

This isn't a cycling forum. This is an MMA forum we don't consider cycling athletes with regards to the initial question I posed.

I know what forum this is. Lance had one of the most immaculate careers in cycling history. He seeming like a nice guy who insisted he was innocent and hated PEDs. People at the time (myself included) said he could achieve it without PEDs though it was pushing it, though Lance pushed it. We were all wrong. The point is the clean test record is basically meaningless so people judge GSPs record based on his wins vs the (non DQ'd) wins and record of the other GOATS. Analogy stands.

 

[DoctorNick]

I absolutely hate GSP but you can't deny his status. Avenged his only losses (except that Hendricks situation) and never failed a test unlike Andy or Jones. Easily the UFC GOAT, blanket or not.

 

[ZoSo]

I know what forum this is. Lance had one of the most immaculate careers in cycling history. He seeming like a nice guy who insisted he was innocent and hated PEDs. People at the time (myself included) said he could achieve it without PEDs though it was pushing it, though Lance pushed it. We were all wrong. The point is the clean test record is basically meaningless so people judge GSPs record based on his wins vs the (non DQ'd) wins and record of the other GOATS. Analogy stands.

No. GSP has not been popped. Yet he is placed below individuals on the GOAT rankings who have popped. THAT is my question.

 

[100action]

GSP has alot of red flags i.e.

-year round shredded physique even at 185lb
-dimples on abs
-greasing (prediposition to seeking advantages outside of the rules)

However, you have to give him the benefit of the doubt because he hasn't tested positive yet.

 

[TapMachine]

GSP and Fedor are the honorable man's goats. Anderoid and Jon Roids are the scumbag's goats.

 

[Egészségére!]

No. GSP has not been popped. Yet he is placed below individuals on the GOAT rankings who have popped. THAT is my question.

That's cool and all I'm saying is that people simply don't believe him so they're not distinguishing him from those on the GOAT rankings who have popped, and a case like Lance gives ample reason not to. You do know that Lance never popped once right? Never

 

[Congo66]

GOAT discussion is subjective so that's why PED use doesn't matter to some people when they come up with a GOAT or GOAT list etc.....
When a fighter is caught they lose the fight when they were caught from their record. You can assume that they were using for their entire career or not. It's subjective.

It's less of a problem in other sports. Would PED Ben Johnson have beaten Usain Bolt? Well no as Bolt's world record was a lot faster than Johnsons so even if you're in the PED's good, let them dope camp Bolt still wins.