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Grinding down your opponent

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Big Red, Dec 8, 2005.

  1. Big Red

    Big Red Green Belt

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    Hey guys! I have found that I'm sadly not a gifted natural that can perform techniques to perfection. So I though I'd get scrappy in a non- painful way & find out some stuff about the way you guys grind your opponent/work an area of your opponent to finish a sub.

    My positioning & sweeps are OK against those at & below my level & have been better against the more advanced guys. But as I've stated many times in frustration I can't finish successfully. So don't get me wrong, I understand jiu jitsu should work for everyone & it is my human error I'm not finishing people well enough.

    However, what do you guys like to do to work a position. I don't mean the nasty stuff like cross facing etc but the little added things you do in positions to work for a particular sub or open up your opponent?

    This helps me in armbar attempts for mount. I tend to struggle to open up my opponents arms if they are hugging tight to their chest. The thing I find helpful is to get a figure four grip around one their wrists & push to see which side is weaker. If in the case of their left arm is the one you want to attack, if they slip up & allow that arm to fall to their left then BAM.. they should have let themselves fall into kimura. However, if hey are stubborn/strong & they put their wrist to the right side of the body, this should give you space to slide around for the armbar.
    To really aggrivate your opponent with their arm figure 4'd on their side which is not vulnerable to a kimura (if that makes sense) press their wrist to their chest & raise your snaked hand up a little to put pressure across their bicep or/and forarm to cause discomfort so they move to an even weak position. If you still can't get their arm after you have swooped your left leg over, continue to push down with one hand & raise with the other, they'll either tap to this, move into a kimura or release into an armbar.

    A thing I want to try tonight (espicially on the more egotistical guys :icon_evil to wind them up) in mount is to grip the back of their neck like a can opener whilst having my elbows in either their pecs or biceps. I find guys tend to curl up in this position & hopefully doing something like this will cause them to move an arm or something into the wrong position so I can finish them.

    I know this is scrappy jiu jitsu but the guys I train more regularly with are MMA guys who appreciate the fact in grappling & in particular MMA.. no one gives a fuck if they haven't got a technique precisely on you as long as they get a sub. I'd obviously like to have beautiful jiu jitsu, but scrappy will do :D .

    BTW, I'm not one of those annoys doods that squeeze temples, crank necks, gouge eyes & low blow. I just want to learn some tips to make subbing someone that bit easier.
     
  2. Gsoares2***

    Gsoares2*** Banned Banned

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    i try my best to stay away from dirty stuff. Its not the kind of jiu jitsu i want to learn.
     
  3. sha

    sha Geekjitsu Black Belt

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    he wasn't talking about dirty stuff, just about ways of setting up stuff. Plus the "dirty" stuff is part of every fighting system, even if you don't want to use it you'd better learn to defend against it...
     
  4. b0b

    b0b Banned Banned

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    One thing that works great for me is the wrestling style side mount. Put your chest on theirs, sprawl your legs out, drive your hips low to the ground. This presses on thier chest, makes it difficult to breathe and frustrates them.
     
  5. Aesopian

    Aesopian Brown Belt

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    Don't waste too much time trying to learn gimmicks to cause mild discomfort. Your time would be better spent really just working on position and leverage, even if you're not getting a ton of submissions.

    But to address on of your problems: If someone is laying under mount with their hands hugging their chest to avoid armbars, I tend to grab both of their wrists and push one towards their stomach (or just hold it in place) as I pull the other up and step over their trapped arm to get a mounted triangle. It's like the triangle from guard where you just grab each wrist and shove one out and pull one in to slap it on. Only from mount.
     
  6. Jimmy Cerra

    Jimmy Cerra Amateur Fighter

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    Join the club. I'm not a natural athlete either, and it sucks!

    Depends on who I am rolling with. I'd never do anything illegal. But I have no qualms about cross-facing in tournaments since you got to go all out then. I also sometimes use them against guys 50+ pounds heavier than me under the theory that it doesn't hurt them as much as it hurts me. Sometimes I'll also use da tough stuff with rolling with close friends. Those mat wars are sometimes really fun!

    Nice, I'll try that!

    Isn't this a neck crank? It is illegal in some competitions, and I personally hate it much more than crossfaces (which are benign to me since I wrestled for a little while in high school).
     
  7. Kawlinz

    Kawlinz How do I change my Custom User Title?

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    If you're working the arm for an armbar, you can secure the armbar while going for a wrist lock on either hand (preferably the one you're working tho). This will break one of the two grips and it will be much easier to extand the arm afterwards.
     
  8. Big Red

    Big Red Green Belt

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    I do feel the same. Although I don't see tweaking on a wrist any more dirty than using your elbows to push on their knees to open a closed guard.

    Yeh you are probably correct. I may not pull on the neck too hard or at all. I just find when my opponent controls my head in particular a mount situation it gets me 'panicky' about their next move.

    .

    I like that set up, I'll have to give it a shot.

    How is that different to a BJJ side mount? The fact that both legs are sprawled rather than keeping one against the hip?
     
  9. Aesopian

    Aesopian Brown Belt

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    Using your elbow to dig their thighs and open closed guard is gotarded.
     
  10. Big Red

    Big Red Green Belt

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    What do you use?
     
  11. Aesopian

    Aesopian Brown Belt

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    Proper posture, standing, pushing on the knee with my hand, shaking them, walking backwards. Or tripod up, put a knee through legs and sit down to drive the knee through their guard. Neither are dependant on pain, like elbow grinding.
     
  12. b0b

    b0b Banned Banned

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    Traditional BJJ sidemount is putting all of your weight on your knees and keeping your butt low. This puts no pressure on the opponent.

    The wrestling way puts all of your weight on thier chest and drives the air out of them.
     
  13. Aesopian

    Aesopian Brown Belt

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    The first way I (and everyone at my school) was ever taught to hold side mount was to go chest-on-chest, sprawl, hips low, hand by the hip and hand over the body. It's called 100 kilos, and it's not some special technique outside of BJJ.
     
  14. bacon

    bacon Silver Belt

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    Having an iron grip will help. Dan Hodges (exceptional wrestler) had amazing hand strength. He could break the handles off pliers and turn an apple into applesauce in one hand in about a second. An iron grip is also intimidating. Check the S&P forum stickys for how to improve your grip.

    Using your chin to apply pressure to various points on the body (sternum, spine, clavicle, shoulder, etc...) will definitly make your opponent react, especially if you have a boney chin. It won't do any damage, but it is very uncomfortable and will make your opponent move. I use my chin alot in wrestling.

    As far as wearing an opponent down though, superior conditioning is my number one recommendation. If you can push a pace that your opponent can't handle/sustain, you'll have an advantage even if you aren't the most gifted of athletes.

    Good luck
     
  15. bacon

    bacon Silver Belt

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    It also makes your sub attempts and transitions slower.
     
  16. b0b

    b0b Banned Banned

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    Save those until they are worn out. You can easily switch to knee on belly or mount from that position.
     
  17. Bama Zulu

    Bama Zulu Blue Belt

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    You might be able to catch some moron with it. It's better to do the sprawl side mount into kesa-gatame into traditional side mount into knee on chest. I find that is the safest and most discomforting way to get into my fav. position.
     
  18. Kawlinz

    Kawlinz How do I change my Custom User Title?

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    How is elbow-knee gotarded, when you use the slower, less efficient way of using your hand and pushing? So what if it causes a little pain?
     
  19. Aesopian

    Aesopian Brown Belt

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    I'm not going to get into another debate about how grinding their thigh with your elbow is gotarded. Feel free to do it all you want.
     
  20. Gsoares2***

    Gsoares2*** Banned Banned

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    using your elbow to dig in the thigh has a disadvantage.. Guys will just hold your hand and climb.. leaving you with one arm stuck inside pending an armbar... pull it out and now your pending a triangle. Thats why it is better to use "slower, less efficient way of using your hand and pushing" Thats just my opinion though.
    I catch guys constantly that use the elbows to open me up. I just hold a wrist and shove their elbow towards my crotch.. then climb.. then they have to deal with an onslaught of attacks. armbars, triangles, more armbars, and omoplatta.


    Have to ask your self if you want to be the dirty skeez bag guy willing to do anything to win, or if you want to be the techincal guru that does everything clean and perfect.
     

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