Great article: America is not Capitalist, or Socialist. We are a mixed economy

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by VivaRevolution, Aug 28, 2018.

  1. VivaRevolution

    VivaRevolution Whoopin' Belt Double Yellow Card

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    American Democrats: Not capitalists, not socialists
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    BY DAVE ANDERSON, OPINION CONTRIBUTOR
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    Most Democratic politicians will tell you that they support capitalism. Left-wing Democrats like Senator Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez will tell you they are socialists and that capitalism is their target.

    The reality is that most Democrats do not support capitalism and Senator Sanders and Ms. Ocasio-Cortez are not socialists, at least if we use these terms in meaningful ways.

    The Democrats do not have a monopoly on misusing language, but language, as the philosopher Ludwig Wittgenstein said in a different context, has gone "on holiday" for American Democrats.

    Capitalism in its pure sense supports a free market economy and no government intervention in the private sector. In the twentieth century capitalism in the United States (and Europe) was reformed - during the Progressive Era, the New Deal Era, and the Great Society Era.


    What emerged as a result of these periods of transformation was a political-economic system that was a mixture of capitalist and socialist elements: this mixture has often been called the 'mixed economy.' A pure capitalist economy, the "laissez-faire economy," has no conceptual room for a social safety net or regulations of private industry or rights for workers. A mixed economy, on the other hand, does.

    It is frequently said that FDR in politics and John Maynard Keynes in economics"saved capitalism." In a sense this is true, but the new system they, and others put in its place, was not capitalism in any very interesting sense of the term. The term capitalism can only be stretched so far. Why else was the term "mixed economy" created other than to point to the inadequacy of using the term capitalism to describe this hybrid system?

    https://www.google.com/amp/thehill.com/opinion/campaign/403966-american-democrats-not-capitalists-not-socialists?amp

    _____________________________________________________

    Now, I stopped the article here intentionally. It goes on to argue that the essential characteristic of socialism is nationalizing industry.

    I disagree. Social security is a nationalizing of a retirement fund. The military is a nationalized industry. Medicare is the nationalization of HC for the elderly. Police, fire, paramedics, teachers, are all government monopolies. Basically everything he argues that is part of the mixed economy, that isn't mere regulation, is the government Monopoly of a sector.

    Socialism is regulation. It is the military. It is nationalized industry.

    The problem is that we still view socialism as a dirty word. It is no more of a dirty word then capitalism is. They are both failed ideologies. The only experiment that has ever worked has been a hybrid. The West's mixed economies.

    Discuss............
     
  2. Sketch

    Sketch ?.?.?.?.?.?

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    They are neither. They serve only the major corporations and massive profits for the rich.
     
  3. JudoThrowFiasco

    JudoThrowFiasco Charming Quark Platinum Member

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    I agree with the articles broad stroke view that the US and most countries are a mix, seems pretty obvious. But socialist isn't really a single term as there are a magnitude of ideologies that fall under the socialist umbrella. So to say which aspects of each side works best is debatable. I friggen love the American version that leans towards more cutthroat over the cuddly version in Europe.

    But I can see why people who are incapable would prefer the other models.
     
  4. Fedorable

    Fedorable Continues without supporting Sherdog.

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    we need some good old fashion capitalist monopoly bustin'
     
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  5. MadSquabbles500

    MadSquabbles500 Steel Belt

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    So quasi-feudal Corporate plutocracy like on the TV show Dark Matter.
     
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  6. VivaRevolution

    VivaRevolution Whoopin' Belt Double Yellow Card

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    Is that a problem generated by the mixed economy, or a problem generated by corruption?
     
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  7. Madmick

    Madmick Cerebrage Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Wrong. We're capitalists.

    Of course, like most, we're a mixed economy, but we're capitalists who develop socialist rails as a safety net. Our fundamental foundation is capitalist.
     
  8. Sketch

    Sketch ?.?.?.?.?.?

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    Both.
     
  9. Arkain2K

    Arkain2K Si vis pacem, para bellum

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    How do I know we're Capitalists at the core? Well, we embraced, accepted, and love the market economy for what it is, minor warts and all, and despite the many flavors/varieties/implementations of Capitalism around the world, from the United States to Denmark, no Capitalist - especially Americans - ever have to resort to the ridiculous trope of "Not real Capitalism! Real Capitalism has never been tried!"
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2018
  10. ndwolfwood

    ndwolfwood Rue and Lament It

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    We are capitalists. The constitution was set up to protect the people from the government.

    Any other interpretation is subversive marxist tripe.
     
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  11. VivaRevolution

    VivaRevolution Whoopin' Belt Double Yellow Card

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    If we are capitalists today, then you should have no objection to taking medicare, SS, public education, the nationalizing of the military sector, and putting it all on steroids, because then we would just be capitalists on steroids, right?
     
  12. tinker_190

    tinker_190 Brown Belt

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    You will never be rid of avarice, but you can be rid of government granting or facilitating monopolies that in turn allow corrupt corporate megapower.

    Also, I have an issue with some of the weird, almost cult-like way you are phrasing socialism. "Socialism is regulation", in particular, is so broad and intentionally innocuous that I suspect it is intentionally misleading. You sound like you are at a pulpit.

    Also, calling the military "nationalized industry" is very dubious. I wouldn't consider it industry at all.
     
  13. Arkain2K

    Arkain2K Si vis pacem, para bellum

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    I actual have no objection to any of that in principal, it's the unrealistic pie-in-the-sky mentality of their proponents that I take issue with, for I live in reality and they're not.

    The problem is, from Vermont to California, we haven't seen a single honest proposal for such implementation of social program overhaul that's not powered by pixie dust and snake oil.

    Case in point: here's the piss-poor attempt at bringing Single-Payer Healthcare to my deep-blue State of California. If you're not in objection to that ridiculous "framework" that would most certainly bankrupt us, then you're just insane:

    http://forums.sherdog.com/posts/131346409/
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2018
  14. VivaRevolution

    VivaRevolution Whoopin' Belt Double Yellow Card

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    I'm not going to claim to know how to write the bill, so that the money already going to HC, just goes to Medicare for all, but the idea the money isn't there, is absurd.
     
  15. Jack V Savage

    Jack V Savage Secretary of Keepin' It Real/Nicest Guy on Sherdog

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    Really, the terms have become so polluted that they're essentially meaningless for the purposes of communication. Better to discuss policy specifics.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism:_The_Unknown_Ideal
     
  16. Madmick

    Madmick Cerebrage Staff Member Senior Moderator

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