1. We now have a new forum called Fantasy Matchup Discussion. Access it here

Grappling questions???

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by loui_ludwig, Jul 27, 2005.

  1. loui_ludwig

    loui_ludwig Green Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2005
    Messages:
    1,237
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Instead of asking this questions on diffirent threads, i will combine them into one...

    1. What is catch wrestling, where are the locations of its school?

    2. What is the diffirence between submission and catch wrestling?

    Who is a famous catch wrestler?
    4. Has anybody taken Combat Submission Wrestling and what is your opinion.

    5. I read that a black belt in judo is equivalent to a blue belt in BJJ, why is that? I assume in ground grappling only,

    6. A blackbelt in BJJ, what is he/she equivalent to in Judo, as far as the throws, leg sweeps, and takedowns.

    7. Is Fusen Ryu Jiu jitsu the original jiu jitsu. Do they do a lot of ground grappling.

    8. Of all of the jiu jitsu(except bjj), what jiu jitsu style concentrates on ground grappling or at least half of its techniques.
     
  2. Bmonk**

    Bmonk** Guest

    In regards to Number 5, a Judo Black Belt is definately not the equivalent of a blue, however, it's also definately not the equivalent of a black, or even a brown belt in BJJ on the ground.

    It really depends on the Judo School, instructor and the person himself.

    A black belt in Judo just means that you have learned all the basics.

    I'd say in general, good Judo Black Belts from legit schools are the equivalent of BJJ purple belts on the ground.
     
  3. ClubberLange

    ClubberLange Green Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2002
    Messages:
    1,437
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Maybe I only got to roll with Judokas from crappy schools, but I never really had any trouble with the brown and blacks visiting my school. Even when I was a good whitey.
    On the ground that is. If I tried to stand with them, I'd probably get thrown through the wall.
    I don't agree with the idea of a black belt in judo being the equivilant of a purple bjjer on the ground.
    Maybe it's different in other places, but a purple here has to be pretty fuckin slick to get that rank.
    Like I said this is only from my experience.
     
  4. jahred

    jahred rarity

    Joined:
    May 24, 2003
    Messages:
    4,821
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    probably elsewhere
    catch wrestling - 'weird' grappling style. by weird i mean unorthodox. odd lookin submissions. i don't know about schools, but tony ceccine has a tape series at http://www.groundfighter.com

    submission wrestling is no-gi adcc style grappling. catch is different, i'm not sure of the exact rules.

    lou thesz (deceased) and tony ceccine are the only catch guys i know of. i think the harts knew it as well?

    never heard of the combat thing.

    all i know is that when i was fairly new i rolled with a judo red belt and killed him. he was very inexperienced. i don't know judo rankings so i don't know how high up the red guy was. in general judo guys don't work ground as much as bjj guys, so i'd say you're probably right.

    dunno about the last three.
     
  5. Bmonk**

    Bmonk** Guest

    I've never heard of a red belt in Judo.

    In Japan it goes White, Brown, Black.

    In North America it goes White, Yellow, Orange, Green, Blue, Brown, Black.
     
  6. jahred

    jahred rarity

    Joined:
    May 24, 2003
    Messages:
    4,821
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    probably elsewhere
    yep i know nothing about it, except he was a judo guy with a red belt on.
     
  7. Foolkiller

    Foolkiller You have meddled with the primal forces of nature!

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2002
    Messages:
    8,303
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    Part of the only one holistic system of systems
  8. Dedicado

    Dedicado Machetero

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2005
    Messages:
    969
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    British Columbia, Canada
    Instead of asking this questions on diffirent threads, i will combine them into one...

    1. What is catch wrestling, where are the locations of its school? Catch wrestling is freestyle wrestling, with hammer-locks, heel hooks, can openers and other submissions like these thrown in. I have no idea where there is a school of this style.

    2. What is the diffirence between submission and catch wrestling?
    Submission wrestling has all the BJJ no-gi submissions thrown in, catch has mostly outlawed wrestling moves and is lacking in the choke, triangle and arm-bar department.

    Who is a famous catch wrestler? Matt Furey, the snake oil salesman, is an infamous catch wrestler.

    4. Has anybody taken Combat Submission Wrestling and what is your opinion.
    Never taken it. Can't say.

    5. I read that a black belt in judo is equivalent to a blue belt in BJJ, why is that? BJJ guys like to throw this stat around to intimidate Judo players.
    Judo guys who don't know the ground will get tapped by anybody, likewise BJJ'ers who can't stand get dropped by anybody.

    6. A blackbelt in BJJ, what is he/she equivalent to in Judo, as far as the throws, leg sweeps, and takedowns? Can't rightly say, pretty good tho' I'd imagine, especially if they compete alot.

    7. Is Fusen Ryu Jiu jitsu the original jiu jitsu. Do they do a lot of ground grappling. No. Yes.

    8. Of all of the jiu jitsu(except bjj), what jiu jitsu style concentrates on ground grappling or at least half of its techniques. Judo. Chin-Na. Japanese Jiu-Jisu.
     
  9. Bmonk**

    Bmonk** Guest

    6th Dan Judo Masters have a belt that's Red and White. Not just red.
     
  10. Foolkiller

    Foolkiller You have meddled with the primal forces of nature!

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2002
    Messages:
    8,303
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    Part of the only one holistic system of systems
    Well it's entirely possible he's like a 9th or 10th degree black belt who would have a totally red belt, but I figured the person could have been lazy and just got a red belt since red and white belts are hard to come by.
     
  11. Bmonk**

    Bmonk** Guest

    I really doubt a 9th or 10th degree black belt would be that inexperienced on the ground.
     
  12. judogido

    judogido Aussie!, Aussie!, Aussie! ...

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2004
    Messages:
    3,741
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Down Under
    He could've tried to dye his belt & made it a really, really dark orange. I've seen some browns/blues/greens that look like black too...
     
  13. judogido

    judogido Aussie!, Aussie!, Aussie! ...

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2004
    Messages:
    3,741
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Down Under
    I think it is tough and not entirely accurate to compare a black belt in one style to a lesser grade in another. There simply is NO formula or standard to compare the different levels.

    There are simply too many variables to take into consideration. Do they cross train? Does their club train standup AND groundwork equally? How good/strong is the black belt & their club overall?.

    I've seen some judokas who enjoy and concentrate on ground grappling and the students in their class are ver technical & would give any BJJer a run for their money. I've also seen some very strong and technical throws from BJJers in competition that would look at home at the highest level of judo competition.

    In a nutshell: Yes, judoka are GENERALLY stronger than BJJers in standup. Yes, BJJers are GENERALLY stronger than judoka in groundwork. But is is not always the rule.
     
  14. The Man Monster

    The Man Monster Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2005
    Messages:
    408
    Likes Received:
    0
    Judo players have a hard time with BJJ Blue Belts most of the time, so I would say that statement was right.
     
  15. The Sickness

    The Sickness Ichizoku

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2002
    Messages:
    3,895
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Ridin' shotgun with Alexander Karelin in Fedor's b
    Ima BJJ bluebelt, and I have tapped every blackbelt at my club in Ne Waza. But I'm not there to tap blackbelts, I'm there to learn throws and other valuable Judo lessons. And since I am now considered a part of that team as well, I am there to share my knowledge of the ground game. As they get better, so will I. When it comes to randori, if I don't get a wrestling takedown, I get tossed. How you train is how you fight...
     
  16. judogido

    judogido Aussie!, Aussie!, Aussie! ...

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2004
    Messages:
    3,741
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Down Under
    Meh - all relative. I visited a BJJ club as a 1K brown belt. In my first session I tapped a blue - doesnt mean I'm better than blue belt level, I was just stronger & had the bloke's number on the day.

    Consider that there are different expectations of a black belt judoka depending on the country. In Japan, shodans are not necessarily experts as they take a different view of black belts - whereas in Australia shodans are somewhat tougher - you cannot get a shodan in 1-2 years in Australia unless you are really exceptional technically & in competitions. There's a different set of standards for every country.

    I think labelling judoka black belts = BJJ blue belts on the ground , or BJJ black belts = judoka blue belts in standing is really too subjective - given the varying degrees of skill and standards from one individual in one country to another individual in another country - to make any accurate general comparison.
     
  17. jahred

    jahred rarity

    Joined:
    May 24, 2003
    Messages:
    4,821
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    probably elsewhere
    hah well that certainly wasn't the case. he was a year or two younger than me i think which would put him at 19 or so, and about the same size. he was neither a kid and certainly not a master. :D
     
  18. jahred

    jahred rarity

    Joined:
    May 24, 2003
    Messages:
    4,821
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    probably elsewhere
    agreed. he definitely wasn't near that great. i saw him doing throws and 'randori' or whatever (the judo class was right before our submission class) and he was getting schooled by some bigger, older black belts but was holding his own against another. i don't think he was as high up as a black belt, but he certainly wasn't a newb either.

    he tried to power a lot of stuff and didn't seem to know too many submissions. i think i tapped him twice, from the guard with a triangle and with a rnc.. he was very inexperienced on the mat. to be fair, we started from knees so i didn't have a chance to stand with him, but i don't think it would have been that different if we had.
     
  19. jahred

    jahred rarity

    Joined:
    May 24, 2003
    Messages:
    4,821
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    probably elsewhere
    i'm just clarifying that i meant that judo guys are very likely more inexperienced on the mat than a . jiujitsu guy with less experience.. i wasn't trying to say that jiujitsu > judo.

    it goes both ways. if i were in a judo match i'd be _absolutely_ inexperienced.
     
  20. Gsoares2***

    Gsoares2*** Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2005
    Messages:
    3,319
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    if your a 9th or 10 degree in judo... you have a bad back, and bad knees.
    cant walk without a walker, and probably have an oxygen tank to accompany you.

    your 90 years old.

    that explains how you beat him so easy.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.