Grappling questions???

[loui_ludwig]

Instead of asking this questions on diffirent threads, i will combine them into one...

1. What is catch wrestling, where are the locations of its school?

2. What is the diffirence between submission and catch wrestling?

Who is a famous catch wrestler?
4. Has anybody taken Combat Submission Wrestling and what is your opinion.

5. I read that a black belt in judo is equivalent to a blue belt in BJJ, why is that? I assume in ground grappling only,

6. A blackbelt in BJJ, what is he/she equivalent to in Judo, as far as the throws, leg sweeps, and takedowns.

7. Is Fusen Ryu Jiu jitsu the original jiu jitsu. Do they do a lot of ground grappling.

8. Of all of the jiu jitsu(except bjj), what jiu jitsu style concentrates on ground grappling or at least half of its techniques.

 

[Bmonk**]

In regards to Number 5, a Judo Black Belt is definately not the equivalent of a blue, however, it's also definately not the equivalent of a black, or even a brown belt in BJJ on the ground.

It really depends on the Judo School, instructor and the person himself.

A black belt in Judo just means that you have learned all the basics.

I'd say in general, good Judo Black Belts from legit schools are the equivalent of BJJ purple belts on the ground.

 

[ClubberLange]

In regards to Number 5, a Judo Black Belt is definately not the equivalent of a blue, however, it's also definately not the equivalent of a black, or even a brown belt in BJJ on the ground.

It really depends on the Judo School, instructor and the person himself.

A black belt in Judo just means that you have learned all the basics.

I'd say in general, good Judo Black Belts from legit schools are the equivalent of BJJ purple belts on the ground.

Maybe I only got to roll with Judokas from crappy schools, but I never really had any trouble with the brown and blacks visiting my school. Even when I was a good whitey.
On the ground that is. If I tried to stand with them, I'd probably get thrown through the wall.
I don't agree with the idea of a black belt in judo being the equivilant of a purple bjjer on the ground.
Maybe it's different in other places, but a purple here has to be pretty fuckin slick to get that rank.
Like I said this is only from my experience.

 

[jahred]

Instead of asking this questions on diffirent threads, i will combine them into one...

1. What is catch wrestling, where are the locations of its school?

2. What is the diffirence between submission and catch wrestling?

Who is a famous catch wrestler?
4. Has anybody taken Combat Submission Wrestling and what is your opinion.

5. I read that a black belt in judo is equivalent to a blue belt in BJJ, why is that? I assume in ground grappling only,

6. A blackbelt in BJJ, what is he/she equivalent to in Judo, as far as the throws, leg sweeps, and takedowns.

7. Is Fusen Ryu Jiu jitsu the original jiu jitsu. Do they do a lot of ground grappling.

8. Of all of the jiu jitsu(except bjj), what jiu jitsu style concentrates on ground grappling or at least half of its techniques.

catch wrestling - 'weird' grappling style. by weird i mean unorthodox. odd lookin submissions. i don't know about schools, but tony ceccine has a tape series at http://www.groundfighter.com

submission wrestling is no-gi adcc style grappling. catch is different, i'm not sure of the exact rules.

lou thesz (deceased) and tony ceccine are the only catch guys i know of. i think the harts knew it as well?

never heard of the combat thing.

all i know is that when i was fairly new i rolled with a judo red belt and killed him. he was very inexperienced. i don't know judo rankings so i don't know how high up the red guy was. in general judo guys don't work ground as much as bjj guys, so i'd say you're probably right.

dunno about the last three.

 

[Bmonk**]

all i know is that when i was fairly new i rolled with a judo red belt and killed him. he was very inexperienced. i don't know judo rankings so i don't know how high up the red guy was. in general judo guys don't work ground as much as bjj guys, so i'd say you're probably right.

I've never heard of a red belt in Judo.

In Japan it goes White, Brown, Black.

In North America it goes White, Yellow, Orange, Green, Blue, Brown, Black.

 

[jahred]

I've never heard of a red belt in Judo.

In Japan it goes White, Brown, Black.

In North America it goes White, Yellow, Orange, Green, Blue, Brown, Black.

yep i know nothing about it, except he was a judo guy with a red belt on.

 

[Foolkiller]

http://www.samurai.org.uk/Thesport/promotion.htm

Red belts are sometimes used between white and yellow for kids. If he was an adult with a red belt he must be like a 6th Dan judo master.

 

[Dedicado]

Instead of asking this questions on diffirent threads, i will combine them into one...

1. What is catch wrestling, where are the locations of its school? Catch wrestling is freestyle wrestling, with hammer-locks, heel hooks, can openers and other submissions like these thrown in. I have no idea where there is a school of this style.

2. What is the diffirence between submission and catch wrestling?
Submission wrestling has all the BJJ no-gi submissions thrown in, catch has mostly outlawed wrestling moves and is lacking in the choke, triangle and arm-bar department.

Who is a famous catch wrestler? Matt Furey, the snake oil salesman, is an infamous catch wrestler.

4. Has anybody taken Combat Submission Wrestling and what is your opinion.
Never taken it. Can't say.

5. I read that a black belt in judo is equivalent to a blue belt in BJJ, why is that? BJJ guys like to throw this stat around to intimidate Judo players.
Judo guys who don't know the ground will get tapped by anybody, likewise BJJ'ers who can't stand get dropped by anybody.

6. A blackbelt in BJJ, what is he/she equivalent to in Judo, as far as the throws, leg sweeps, and takedowns? Can't rightly say, pretty good tho' I'd imagine, especially if they compete alot.

7. Is Fusen Ryu Jiu jitsu the original jiu jitsu. Do they do a lot of ground grappling. No. Yes.

8. Of all of the jiu jitsu(except bjj), what jiu jitsu style concentrates on ground grappling or at least half of its techniques. Judo. Chin-Na. Japanese Jiu-Jisu.

 

[Bmonk**]

http://www.samurai.org.uk/Thesport/promotion.htm

Red belts are sometimes used between white and yellow for kids. If he was an adult with a red belt he must be like a 6th Dan judo master.

6th Dan Judo Masters have a belt that's Red and White. Not just red.

 

[Foolkiller]

6th Dan Judo Masters have a belt that's Red and White. Not just red.

Well it's entirely possible he's like a 9th or 10th degree black belt who would have a totally red belt, but I figured the person could have been lazy and just got a red belt since red and white belts are hard to come by.

 

[Bmonk**]

Well it's entirely possible he's like a 9th or 10th degree black belt who would have a totally red belt, but I figured the person could have been lazy and just got a red belt since red and white belts are hard to come by.

I really doubt a 9th or 10th degree black belt would be that inexperienced on the ground.

 

[judogido]

yep i know nothing about it, except he was a judo guy with a red belt on.

He could've tried to dye his belt & made it a really, really dark orange. I've seen some browns/blues/greens that look like black too...

 

[judogido]

5. I read that a black belt in judo is equivalent to a blue belt in BJJ, why is that? I assume in ground grappling only,

6. A blackbelt in BJJ, what is he/she equivalent to in Judo, as far as the throws, leg sweeps, and takedowns.

I think it is tough and not entirely accurate to compare a black belt in one style to a lesser grade in another. There simply is NO formula or standard to compare the different levels.

There are simply too many variables to take into consideration. Do they cross train? Does their club train standup AND groundwork equally? How good/strong is the black belt & their club overall?.

I've seen some judokas who enjoy and concentrate on ground grappling and the students in their class are ver technical & would give any BJJer a run for their money. I've also seen some very strong and technical throws from BJJers in competition that would look at home at the highest level of judo competition.

In a nutshell: Yes, judoka are GENERALLY stronger than BJJers in standup. Yes, BJJers are GENERALLY stronger than judoka in groundwork. But is is not always the rule.

 

[The Man Monster]

Judo players have a hard time with BJJ Blue Belts most of the time, so I would say that statement was right.

 

[The Sickness]

Ima BJJ bluebelt, and I have tapped every blackbelt at my club in Ne Waza. But I'm not there to tap blackbelts, I'm there to learn throws and other valuable Judo lessons. And since I am now considered a part of that team as well, I am there to share my knowledge of the ground game. As they get better, so will I. When it comes to randori, if I don't get a wrestling takedown, I get tossed. How you train is how you fight...

 

[judogido]

Meh - all relative. I visited a BJJ club as a 1K brown belt. In my first session I tapped a blue - doesnt mean I'm better than blue belt level, I was just stronger & had the bloke's number on the day.

Consider that there are different expectations of a black belt judoka depending on the country. In Japan, shodans are not necessarily experts as they take a different view of black belts - whereas in Australia shodans are somewhat tougher - you cannot get a shodan in 1-2 years in Australia unless you are really exceptional technically & in competitions. There's a different set of standards for every country.

I think labelling judoka black belts = BJJ blue belts on the ground , or BJJ black belts = judoka blue belts in standing is really too subjective - given the varying degrees of skill and standards from one individual in one country to another individual in another country - to make any accurate general comparison.

 

[jahred]

http://www.samurai.org.uk/Thesport/promotion.htm

Red belts are sometimes used between white and yellow for kids. If he was an adult with a red belt he must be like a 6th Dan judo master.

hah well that certainly wasn't the case. he was a year or two younger than me i think which would put him at 19 or so, and about the same size. he was neither a kid and certainly not a master.

 

[jahred]

I really doubt a 9th or 10th degree black belt would be that inexperienced on the ground.

agreed. he definitely wasn't near that great. i saw him doing throws and 'randori' or whatever (the judo class was right before our submission class) and he was getting schooled by some bigger, older black belts but was holding his own against another. i don't think he was as high up as a black belt, but he certainly wasn't a newb either.

he tried to power a lot of stuff and didn't seem to know too many submissions. i think i tapped him twice, from the guard with a triangle and with a rnc.. he was very inexperienced on the mat. to be fair, we started from knees so i didn't have a chance to stand with him, but i don't think it would have been that different if we had.

 

[jahred]

i'm just clarifying that i meant that judo guys are very likely more inexperienced on the mat than a . jiujitsu guy with less experience.. i wasn't trying to say that jiujitsu > judo.

it goes both ways. if i were in a judo match i'd be _absolutely_ inexperienced.

 

[Gsoares2***]

I really doubt a 9th or 10th degree black belt would be that inexperienced on the ground.

if your a 9th or 10 degree in judo... you have a bad back, and bad knees.
cant walk without a walker, and probably have an oxygen tank to accompany you.

your 90 years old.

that explains how you beat him so easy.