Grappling points question.

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Title Fight Productions, Jul 15, 2010.

  1. Title Fight Productions

    Title Fight Productions Steel Belt

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    Hey guys i have a question regarding grappling tourny and points.

    Say i have someone in my guard and i do a "guard situp", but instead of doing the hip over, i pull my hips out and end up on all fours facing my opponent, then drive in for the takedown ending up in side or guard.

    Is this a sweep?

    Does it not count as a sweep because i come out to all fours?

    If i keep contact and don't stop in all fours but instantly drive forward is it a sweep?


    Thanks.
     
  2. dataws6

    dataws6 Blue Belt

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    Its probably one of those grey areas that is up to the ref. IE: I posted a vid on here a while back where a guy goes for an armbar on me and I pull my arm out and pass to north south, I thought I would get points and it was about 50/50 here on sherdog, half the people said points the other half said I didnt break the guard to pass it so no points...
     
  3. chris1190

    chris1190 Orange Belt

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    Well I am pretty sure you should get 2 points. Probably up for debate whether you would call it a sweep or a takedown but it's not really relevant anyways.
     
  4. Title Fight Productions

    Title Fight Productions Steel Belt

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    Well after pulling your hips out to face your opponent you would both still be on your knees = no takedown.
     
  5. Higher Learning

    Higher Learning Brown Belt

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    it would earn you 2 points for certain but some ref's would say takedown others would say sweep
     
  6. redaxe

    redaxe Silver Belt

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    You can't score a takedown on an opponent who has both knees on the ground. You only get an advantage. If he has one knee on the ground you get two points for a takedown.

    If you push off your opponent who's kneeling on both knees in your closed guard, get to your knees, then dive in and tackle him while he's still on both his knees, then no, I don't think you would get any points for that, weirdly enough. You'd probably just get an advantage.

    But that situation is not likely to happen in competition, I think if you did that the other guy would just stand up 99 times out of 100.

    If it happens any other way, you would get either sweep or takedown points depending on how you did it.

    Like if I am sitting in de la riva guard and I stand up with my opponent's leg trapped and single-leg him, that is considered a sweep.

    P.S.: I just went to the IBJJF website to reread the rules to help me answer this question, and I saw a whole bunch of shit that wasn't in there the last time I read them. I seriously feel like they are making this stuff up as they go along, and every time they come across a situation where they don't know how to score it, they add a new line to the rules.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2010
  7. ThaWizard

    ThaWizard Purple Belt

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    I think that it would be a sweep but i'm not 100% sure
     
  8. Title Fight Productions

    Title Fight Productions Steel Belt

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    Could be. Its a staple of Frank Shamrocks submission grappling art. Being as how they try to not be on there back any longer than need be. Two ways of doing it, one is off the guard situp over the shoulder and the other is off a guard situp to guillotine, with this one you either get the hip over to mount with a guillotine set (place your arm around neck and your hand flat to your hip) or if they defend the the hip over by pulling away you hip out and have a arm around the neck to look for front choke, drace, rides, etc.

    You should play with it a little, its a good way to reverse being on bottom. You can hip out and shoot in, hip out and snatch them down then spin/ride to the back. I believe its not something that alot of BJJ guys are used to and tends to suprise them. I haven't had the problem of them jumping straight up to there feet at all. I mean really the last place a BJJ guy wants to be (generalizing:redface:) is on there feet. I know i may catch flak for that, but really, being on your knees in front of someone is normal for a BJJ guy.

    Thoughts?
     
  9. SuzukS

    SuzukS White Belt

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    It would be an advantage.

    It couldn't be a takedown because you are not on your feet and neither is your opponent, and it couldn't be a sweep because you came up to your knees.

    That would be a pass because it doesn't matter how the guard opens, you started in his guard and ended past his guard.
     
  10. YeahBee

    YeahBee Samdog Original Nine

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    Are you calling us ghey? you catch/shamrock guys roll around in speedos with barechests ffs
     
  11. Title Fight Productions

    Title Fight Productions Steel Belt

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    I will defer to Chael Sonnen on this subject.:icon_chee
     
  12. Davii

    Davii Blue Belt

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    That is two points for a sweep
     
  13. SuperSuperRambo

    SuperSuperRambo Senior Moderator Senior Moderator

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    A teammate of mine was in a tournament and had the guy in his spider guard. He put the guy off balance with the spider guard, nearly a sweep, the guy went to his knees, and then my teammate went and took top position. He got no points for a sweep. Which I think is ridiculous. But maybe this is a technicality in the rules that I'm unaware of.
     
  14. YeahBee

    YeahBee Samdog Original Nine

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    Wouldn't it just be easier to award points for sidecontrol?
     
  15. redaxe

    redaxe Silver Belt

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    Yes, but for some reason they insist on awarding points for the action of passing the guard rather than the position of side control. It's baffling.
     

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