Grappling of 90's vs now?

[FedorEmperor85]

Just watched a rare clip of Frank Shamrock v Dan Henderson grappling match from the late 1990's. Frank immediately dropped for leg lock/ankle lock/heel hook quicker than you can say HUH, now when i watch this my jaw immediately drops at how fast and precise he was compared to Dan. Now my main question is, was Frank that advanced in grappling or was Dan just that bad then when it came to submissions? Also, how would Frank fare in a grappling tournament right now if he were 10 years younger?

 

[redaxe]

Frank Shamrock was a better grappler than Hendo, especially for leg locks. Lots of guys have tapped Hendo in fights.

You don't have to be THAT much better than someone at grappling to make them LOOK like they're being totally outclassed. You can really dominate someone by being just a little bit more skilled than they are.

P.S.: by "lots of guys" i mean Anderson Silva and both the Nogueira brothers, haha.

 

[FIGHTGAME101]

Grappers of today are more evoled, now that they know all about submissions. shamrock & dan severan learned the hard way, that bjj was & still is the greatest art.

 

[Asphyx**]

Frank Shamrock was a better grappler than Hendo, especially for leg locks. Lots of guys have tapped Hendo in fights.

You don't have to be THAT much better than someone at grappling to make them LOOK like they're being totally outclassed. You can really dominate someone by being just a little bit more skilled than they are.

P.S.: by "lots of guys" i mean Anderson Silva and both the Nogueira brothers, haha.

Dan has pretty poor defensive wrestling (Ninja was working him) but youre way off about his submission defense. Even when he was completely gassed he fended off EVERYTHING Shields threw at him for five rounds and Shields is one hell of a submission specialist.

 

[Dono**]

Just watched a rare clip of Frank Shamrock v Dan Henderson grappling match from the late 1990's. Frank immediately dropped for leg lock/ankle lock/heel hook quicker than you can say HUH, now when i watch this my jaw immediately drops at how fast and precise he was compared to Dan. Now my main question is, was Frank that advanced in grappling or was Dan just that bad then when it came to submissions? Also, how would Frank fare in a grappling tournament right now if he were 10 years younger?

You also have to realize Dan didn't have a whole lot of submission grappling experience at the time.

 

[Acexwanderer]

Also Dan Henderson injured his knee and needed it to compete at a wresting comp.

 

[Fedorzilla]

Also, how would Frank fare in a grappling tournament right now if he were 10 years younger?

hahaha. I would imagine Frank getting his fucking ass handed to him. Ok, he fights at MW, which is 185. Let's assume he could get down to 180... Marcelo would be doing cartwheels and humiliating him with guillotines... Popovitch and Claudio also just make him look silly. Now, assuming he's fighting at Medium Heavy... then you have guys like Barral, Braulio, Galvao... again, punishment.

These guys are obviously the top dogs in those divisions, but I don't know that he would fare much better against the other top guys... perhaps we're just talking about him going against randoms at some second tier tourney, but I've never seen anything in Frank's game that makes me think he could survive nowadays... even if you take 10 years off his odometer

 

[SMillard]

hahaha. I would imagine Frank getting his fucking ass handed to him. Ok, he fights at MW, which is 185. Let's assume he could get down to 180... Marcelo would be doing cartwheels and humiliating him with guillotines... Popovitch and Claudio also just make him look silly. Now, assuming he's fighting at Medium Heavy... then you have guys like Barral, Braulio, Galvao... again, punishment.

These guys are obviously the top dogs in those divisions, but I don't know that he would fare much better against the other top guys... perhaps we're just talking about him going against randoms at some second tier tourney, but I've never seen anything in Frank's game that makes me think he could survive nowadays... even if you take 10 years off his odometer

The thing is if you take 10 years off his age you'd also have to give him the benefit of the doubt that his training would be more inline with modern training as well. I think he would fare decent, one thing watching the older guys; they may not have had the technique but they were some tough SOBs and they definitely dedicated their time to training and conditioning. Give them the benefit of what is known now and they would still be formidable competitors.