grappling in street/school fights
- Thread starter jarra22
- Start date
what if the untrained guy is much bigger
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2004
- Messages
- 5,911
- Reaction score
- 0
Anyone, trained people included, can get caught.
Street thug meets jiu jitsu purple belt...haymaker lands or something similar and the purple belt loses. Fights cannot always be clearly forecasted...that is why I have never bet on MMA...way too unpredictable.
But what training does...is raise the ratio in your favor IMO. 9 out of 10 times the trained purple belt would take the thug down and pound his face, the other 1 time is what we are training for...
Street thug meets jiu jitsu purple belt...haymaker lands or something similar and the purple belt loses. Fights cannot always be clearly forecasted...that is why I have never bet on MMA...way too unpredictable.
But what training does...is raise the ratio in your favor IMO. 9 out of 10 times the trained purple belt would take the thug down and pound his face, the other 1 time is what we are training for...
i think it also depends on how much bigger and how well trained..
my gym has a wide array of body types and skill levels but i've noticed typically "blue belt" grapplers and below have a harder time against big weight differences (30+ lbs). but purples and up usually can handle whatever they come across..
i guess i should add if the other guy is incompetent on the ground it really doesnt matter how big he is the trained guy with a few months of training will almost always win. i've only got 9 months under my belt but it really blows my mind when rolling with someone new just how far i've come. you can literally put yourself into any position and escape with little trouble...
my gym has a wide array of body types and skill levels but i've noticed typically "blue belt" grapplers and below have a harder time against big weight differences (30+ lbs). but purples and up usually can handle whatever they come across..
i guess i should add if the other guy is incompetent on the ground it really doesnt matter how big he is the trained guy with a few months of training will almost always win. i've only got 9 months under my belt but it really blows my mind when rolling with someone new just how far i've come. you can literally put yourself into any position and escape with little trouble...
Last edited:
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2010
- Messages
- 2,382
- Reaction score
- 0
well, i'd say with 3 months of focusing on having a guard you would be able to survive a 40 pound weight difference.
size doesn't matter when they gift wrap armbars for you from guard.
untrained people on their back will give you armbars all day.
CYBORG MONDO
Blue Belt
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2010
- Messages
- 789
- Reaction score
- 0
what if he rampage jackson slamms him?
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2009
- Messages
- 528
- Reaction score
- 14
the thing that most keyboard warriors dont understand is that if this is a smaller street fight (someone gettin up in ur grill) and not pullin a knife in an alley its mainly gonna be based off of your takedowns and control.
now if he is untrained and your takedowns are good u can turn the corner on ur double and get side control and reign down punches... i doubt you will go to a actual sub...
now if he is untrained and your takedowns are good u can turn the corner on ur double and get side control and reign down punches... i doubt you will go to a actual sub...
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2010
- Messages
- 1,040
- Reaction score
- 0
Well, I would have to really say it depends. If the guy just comes wildly at you, probably not. But if you et knocked down by a shot, or if you knock him down, then yeah, it's going into your comfort zone.
Plus, you have to think about where they are training their grappling. If they are a wrestler, obviously that isn't combat-based. If you train BJJ in a straight BJJ school, you will more likely be learning BJJ as self-defense, whereas learning BJJ in an MMA class has it focused more on it in the sport.
I kinda have a story. I remember about halfway through the fight last year, a few months before I started training, I was at the vending machine in our schools cafeteria. One of the hockey players in my school came up to me and said something to me. I don't remember quite what it was, but it lead to me saying something back, and it escalated to violence eventually.
The fight wasn't long. Basically, he grabbed my shirt, started punching the hell out of my face, and then elbowed me on the side of my jaw. I fell to the ground, and he got on top of me and started to hit me some more.
I kinda half-regained concience, and grabbed his shirt and pulled him into my guard. Like I said, I didn't actually train at that point, but I was already in love with BJJ, and learned all I could, and "UFC fought" with my friends as often as i could (That's what they call Submission Wrestling I guess.)
Basically, I pulled him into my guard, and since he was a little shorter than me, I had no trouble at all doing a really shitty rubber guard. I kinda just rolled onto one side, and ended up on top. I started returning the favor by elbowing the shit outta his face. Then the teacher broke it up, and we both got suspended for five days.
basically the moral of that story is that if it hits the ground, even basic knowledge of grappling is usually enough to get an advantage over untrained people.
Plus, you have to think about where they are training their grappling. If they are a wrestler, obviously that isn't combat-based. If you train BJJ in a straight BJJ school, you will more likely be learning BJJ as self-defense, whereas learning BJJ in an MMA class has it focused more on it in the sport.
I kinda have a story. I remember about halfway through the fight last year, a few months before I started training, I was at the vending machine in our schools cafeteria. One of the hockey players in my school came up to me and said something to me. I don't remember quite what it was, but it lead to me saying something back, and it escalated to violence eventually.
The fight wasn't long. Basically, he grabbed my shirt, started punching the hell out of my face, and then elbowed me on the side of my jaw. I fell to the ground, and he got on top of me and started to hit me some more.
I kinda half-regained concience, and grabbed his shirt and pulled him into my guard. Like I said, I didn't actually train at that point, but I was already in love with BJJ, and learned all I could, and "UFC fought" with my friends as often as i could (That's what they call Submission Wrestling I guess.)
Basically, I pulled him into my guard, and since he was a little shorter than me, I had no trouble at all doing a really shitty rubber guard. I kinda just rolled onto one side, and ended up on top. I started returning the favor by elbowing the shit outta his face. Then the teacher broke it up, and we both got suspended for five days.
basically the moral of that story is that if it hits the ground, even basic knowledge of grappling is usually enough to get an advantage over untrained people.
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2010
- Messages
- 2,382
- Reaction score
- 0
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2009
- Messages
- 528
- Reaction score
- 14
umm yeah it kinda is... the whole standup portion of wrstling translates almost directly into fighting....
thats why pure wrestlers dont even do half bad in mma..... great control to reign punches
luckily i keep my grill in my back yard and don't just tote it around the streets carelessly... would really hate for some stranger to get all up in it..
but your takedowns don't have to be stellar.. even if you end up on bottom as long as you know what your doing and stay calm you should be able to get back on your feet or reverse your position pretty easy.
and i deff see an arm triangle or kimura pretty easy to pull off and would give you plenty of control until the guy calms down
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2010
- Messages
- 1,040
- Reaction score
- 0
What I meant is that if you do high-school wrestling, you aren't training for a fight, you are training for a competition. In a street fight, people can be clawing at you and kneeing you in the balls and all that other great stuff. I am not saying Wrestling isn't a good thing to learn, I'm saying it is not a method of self-defense.
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2010
- Messages
- 1,040
- Reaction score
- 0
When I was probably 14ish, after seeing Fight Club, me and my friends got all pumped, followed the masses, and formed our VERY OWN REAL LIFE FIGHT CLUB!!! But basically, that's where elbowing over punching became a habit, because I'm a little headshy. And when they started bleeding, they would usually wanna quit, and that meant me getting hit in the face less.
i like how people who don't train always say knees, eye pokes, scratches and biting are the key to beating a good grappler in the streets....
thing is.. at the start of the fight a good grappler is going to have you off balance so good luck throwing that one hit wonder punch / knee strike to the groin your counting on. keep your feet together and see how hard it is to have any power when striking... thats what it will be like..
once the fight hits the ground the grappler isn't just going to keep his weight on top of you to keep you pinned... he is going to control your entire body to keep you there. in training you've constantly got to be aware of where your opponents arms / hands / legs / feet / head are so he can't use them for leverage to better his position. even if you do manage to get your hands in his face that opens up a plethora of options for him whether it be just to better his position or end the fight out right.
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2010
- Messages
- 1,040
- Reaction score
- 0
...Wow. Just... wow. I wasn't saying anything even remote about grappling not being appliable. If you read my first post, I even used it to save my ass. All I said was that High-school wrestling is not designed for self-defense. It's designed for competition. certain aspects can be used for defense, sure, but wrestling is not focused around combat.
How the hell you got "this dude is saying grappling can't be used in a fight" out of that is completely beyond me.
Oh, and I do train now. But you would know that if you read my first post.
because i skimmed through the tread without really paying much attention to the names.
the whole part about high school wrestling only prepares you for competition and isn't a viable means of training for self defense part rubbed me the wrong way. sounds like a troll job or something someone who has never trained before would say..
but yeah man sorry taking both posts into account i can see where your coming from i think. like MMA training is better than high school wrestling for a street fight but with either.... competition or not...... your going to end up dominating the other guy unless he gets lucky and catches you. if the guy who tried to beat your head in at the vending machines was a wrestler not a hockey player it probably would have been a lot different (even if it ended up looking like he was trying to dry hump your leg instead of bash your skull in, lol)..
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2010
- Messages
- 1,040
- Reaction score
- 0
Exactly. Basically my original point was that wrestling is focused on training for the sport aspect of it, and not so much for self-defense. Obviously aspects of it can still be utilized, but I was basically saying that arts that are focused on self-defense like pure BJJ are going to help more in the streets than sport-based ones like wrestling.
Mat Nemesis**
Green Belt
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2010
- Messages
- 1,259
- Reaction score
- 0
other important things are can you take a punch, do you like to fight, do you have a strong will.
When I was getting punched in the head by about 4 bouncers I knew that I had to walk through the bar and out the door and not fall down. If I fell down I would be done. So I didn't fall down. but when the world is blacking out it take a lot of will to keep going.
When I was getting punched in the head by about 4 bouncers I knew that I had to walk through the bar and out the door and not fall down. If I fell down I would be done. So I didn't fall down. but when the world is blacking out it take a lot of will to keep going.
